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Suppression of confederate flag. Humbug!

2K views 48 replies 17 participants last post by  Argent11 
#1 ·
We really need to remember our civil war and why it happened and who was involved. It was a horrendously bloody war that set a lot of the tactical military precedents that resulted in the even more horrid trench warfare of WW1. Wiping it from public knowledge just because a bunch of people are offended because they think confederate flags are racist is catering to the lowest form of uninformed peonage. We need to understand the bigger picture and the importance of what it means for a country to fragment because of economic oppression and belligerence.
 
#2 ·
we do, indeed, need to keep in in it's PROPER PERSPECTIVE historically, NOT what some nut-jobs THINK it should be.

for one thing, why is it not pointed out that one very important factor the war was about was STATES RIGHTS.

another was that Lincoln used slavery (or abolishing of) as a bargaining tool to keep the union intact.

the civil war is still alive and well in many part of the south...
 
#3 ·
Back in the 70s when I went through the Smithsonian they had the Stars and Bars on display, along with every other flag that had ever flown over the US as a country. Including the Bonnie Blue and the later Confederate flag, that white one with the big red stripe. I can't remember what it was called but I once knew.
 
#4 ·
Millions of southerners have ancestors that died fighting for the Confederacy, most of those who died were common men and not slave owners. To remove all monuments and pretend the war didn't happen just because people these days are looking for something to be offended by is an insult to all of those southerners and their family members who gave all for the cause. The version of history that liberals are trying to teach us about the civil war is complete BS.

From Abe Lincoln himself:

Aug. 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:

DEAR SIR: I have just read yours of the 19th, addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements or assumptions of fact which I may know to be erroneous, I do not now and here controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here argue against them. If there be perceptible in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing," as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time save Slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy Slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views. I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty, and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men, everywhere, could be free. Yours,

A. LINCOLN.
 
#7 ·
Blacks like to brag that they are descended from slaves; are they gonna shut their pie holes now that they are getting their way??
I wonder what part of history they'll destroy next.
 
#11 ·
Wiping it from public knowledge just because a bunch of people are offended because they think confederate flags are racist is catering to the lowest form of uninformed peonage.

I really like and agree with the turn of your phrase here Conan [emphasis added].

Millions of southerners have ancestors that died fighting for the Confederacy, most of those who died were common men and not slave owners. To remove all monuments and pretend the war didn't happen just because people these days are looking for something to be offended by is an insult to all of those southerners and their family members who gave all for the cause. The version of history that liberals are trying to teach us about the civil war is complete BS.

Anarchist, socialist, communist, as well as a few other -ist's I cannot now think of their names. It is an afront to everyman to allow the voices of a few, no praying, no nativities, no confederate flags, separation of church and state (HA!), et al, attempting to determine the desitny of the many. It will take the blood of dissidents and a few Patriots to set this thinking right again.
 
#13 ·
I really like and agree with the turn of your phrase here Conan [emphasis added].




Anarchist, socialist, communist, as well as a few other -ist's I cannot now think of their names. It is an afront to everyman to allow the voices of a few, no praying, no nativities, no confederate flags, separation of church and state (HA!), et al, attempting to determine the desitny of the many. It will take the blood of dissidents and a few Patriots to set this thinking right again.
I'm sure my wife would agree. I'll have her read your post when she gets back home from work.
 
#14 ·
We were hoping she would get a little time off from the gulag post tax season, "throw the dog a bone"
like they did to us.
I think it can be won back the same way it was lost, one very do-able step at a time.
We have been given an opportunity , with this election, and more specifically with the number of
citizens who stood up, voted, and didn't stay home. Of course we had a very electable candidate, vs. the concubine of satan. No offense intended. ha!:tango_face_grin:

Blessings
 
#20 ·
I have no problem with displaying it as a historic battle flag. But do have a problem with some who think its a legit American flag. Or those who display it as a symbol of ******* pride or prejudice. In my opinion that's why its so controversial today. Southerners defaced it by making it some kind of symbol of ******* southern pride instead of a piece of history that should have been treated with the reverence those americans that died for it deserve. When I was in the service back in the 70s it was nothing to see it flying on peoples flag poles above the American flag. In my opinion a few stupid ******** ruined it for everyone. Its just sad that the GOOD people of the south have to pay for those few idiots.
 
#21 ·
The heartbeat of a cause can only continue so long as there are fresh sore-points to raise, new reasons touted to be offended. Rightfully so, citizenship was achieved, the right to vote achieved, arguably full equality achieved. The cause had to be extended with new reasons to be offended. What was left? Free health care. Free lodging. Free food. Free education. What else could be gotten? Free cell phones. The depth of the well of freebies is getting pretty deep and needs a new reason to be offended. Once all the confederate reminders are eliminated, what will be next? When will it be considered enough?
 
#22 ·
keeping things in perspective, correctly, about history, is NOT the agenda of many.

if it doesn't fit with what they are promoting, it is outright ignored or discredited. the truth simply means nothing to them.

a perfect example is: the elimination of the word "ILLEGAL" from "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT"...radical Mexican groups ignoring the fact that Mexico ceded it's northern territories to the U.S. in the treaty of Hidalgo Guadalupe in 1850 as a result of the Mexican American war...teachers changing text in text book to read what they wish it to.

we still have a long way to go as a nation when it comes to being a cohesive culture. we need open, honest, reliable, verifiable truths, to be discussed, debated and agreed upon,SANS VIOLENCE, THREATS OR COERCION!
 
#36 ·
a perfect example is: the elimination of the word "ILLEGAL" from "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT"...

we still have a long way to go as a nation when it comes to being a cohesive culture. we need open, honest, reliable, verifiable truths, to be discussed, debated and agreed upon,SANS VIOLENCE, THREATS OR COERCION!

We call them "Revisionist Historians. They are trying to change the narrative from "Truth" to "Our Agenda"

I have doubts the US will ever be a cohesive culture in my grandchildren's lifetime.
too many are finding VIOLENCE actually works to promote their narrative.
Ex/ Rodney King, Hands Up: Don't Shoot, Trayvon Martin, et al.

until folks are ready to be HONEST about the past, there will be no resolution.

Up here in Canada, we face the same "Revisionists" with our Indians.


... I have to ask if ANYONE here really thinks that slavery was right?

....
WAS/IS

it is still happening today, and not voluntary like days of old, but being enslaved against one's will.

When I was in Jakarta, I met girls who worked for food and clothing, and a "Bonus" of about $3.00USD a month. To them, they were above "Poverty"

I initially saw them as slaves, but they were free to leave at any time and chose to stay. I had to rearrange my thinking.

a modern form of slavery is now being practiced.... illegal aliens working as servants... VERY similar to Indonesia. Not legal, but not "Slavery"
 
#23 ·
whatever Lincoln's agenda really was doesn't matter much to me. I have to ask if ANYONE here really thinks that slavery was right? Do you really think there would still be slavery today even if the civil war wasn't even fought? I really have to shake my head at anyone that trys to justify it. Especially anyone who does that calls themselves a Christian. Some here get angry saying that people are trying to erase history. What about the history of our ansestors that bought and sold human beings like cattle. I'm not so stupid to claim it only happened in the southern states either. Seems some here either don't believe it should have been stopped or want to trivialize it and say it had nothing to do with that war. We will never know ALL the reasons Lincoln or the leaders of the south had for doing what they did. My guess is just like today they were typical politians that had hidden agendas. Bottom line is whether slavery was the real reason for that war or not it did help usher out slavery in this country. Its a free country and I could care less if you fly a rebel flag in your yard. But its not our countrys flag and never was. It was a battle flag. If its treated like that I don't have a problem with it. But when some put it above our nations flag in importance I do. Friend of mine from both the north and sought fought and died for our flag. I shake my head at someone who would fly it alone in there yard or fly it higher on there pole then the American flag! I feel the same about them as I do flag burners. Its people like that that gave the liberals the ammo to go after that flag. In my opinion (isn't worth much) your getting just what you asked for. If it would have been treated with the reverence it deserved and not used as a symbol for everything from ******** drinking beer in pickups to the kkk this problem you have would have never existed.
 
#25 ·
I have to ask if ANYONE here really thinks that slavery was right? Do you really think there would still be slavery today even if the civil war wasn't even fought? I really have to shake my head at anyone that trys to justify it. Especially anyone who does that calls themselves a Christian. Some here get angry saying that people are trying to erase history. What about the history of our ansestors that bought and sold human beings like cattle.

lloyd...No, implicitly! Slavery was not right and will never be right. We The People of These United States see slavery as an afront to humanity - as it should be.


Regardless of our perspective, that energy remains in the world where men, women and children (in particular) are bought and sold - even here in these United States! You KNOW they are - we just cannot find them to stamp that out.


Death, murder, mayhem, dictators, et al Bad Men abound. Indentured servitude exists. Our "USA-USA-USA" insulated "world" is a means to duck our heads and not look beyond ourselves as we might not like what is looking back. Therein lies one of the premises for the U.S.A. being the World's Policemen.
 
#28 · (Edited)
teachers changing text in text book to read what they wish it to.
In general...teachers don't write textbooks. Is there a good clear example of a text changed from one edition to another?
I can supply one but it is not history and it was not changed by teachers.

About Grant identifying his boss as a supporter of Karl Marx. Grant had two bosses during his tenure as General - Lincoln and Johnson. I do not know what Grant said about either. I do know that despite an exchange of correspondence with Marx, Lincoln cannot be said to have been a supporter.
 
#30 ·
You who think slavery was not right, if you really believed that you would be crying out against the muslims who still practice slavery, and especially against the Christian captives of their conquests. Slavery is alive and well in many parts of the world. And in many different forms.

You are the same ones that say murder is wrong, but America continues to murder millions of unborn babies each year. To justify this our congress simply changer the definition of life. At least the south stood up for their beliefs, and that's more than American citizens are willing to do today in this politically correct age.
 
#31 ·
It's not really about slavery, it never was. They don't really even care about slavery. This is nothing more than an extension of mob rule. The "entitled" and the "gimme more" and the liberals have discovered that if they act like a mob, they get what they want, and don't have any consequences. So, they are continuing the process, to mold the country into what they believe will give them everything they want.
They will try to change our reflection of history, our current policies, even our very language to effect this goal.
Slavery is merely a tool.


Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk
 
#40 ·
Got a news flash for you. Its not just the liberals. Most southern states vote republican and have for years. The people you conservative southern people vote into off are making the laws in your state. Not some northern liberal. Like I said before you brought it on yourself. If the flag would have been look at as a memorial of the good men that fought and died for it it would have been left alone. But it became a banner for red necks, racists, and rebellion. How many times do you still here the south will rise again??? the wars over boys. Been over for over a century now. Everyone that fought in it is dead. Flying your flag off your pickup or as a bandana around your head isn't showing one bit of respect for those good men who died. Its doing nothing but disrespecting them.


If you really cared about that flag why didn't GOOD people from the south put a stop to groups like the KKK from using it as there "battle flag" Sorry but the liberals didn't ruin this for you, you ruined it for yourselves. It should have flown at war memorials and maybe on flag poles on private property as long as it is flown under the American flag. It should never have been flown on government propertys. Like I said everyone that fought under that flag is dead. Theres thousands of veterans (including me) that are still alive that served and fought under the American flag and take exception to ANY other flag then the American flag being flown on the top of a flag pole.


I wonder how the good people of the south would react if everyone from the north started flaying the union battle flag at every government building in the north or ran around immaturely yelling the north is going to rise again and stomp the south once more. Funny thing is up north you could live your whole life and other then in school the civil war is RARELY even mentioned. WHY?? Because it was an embarrassment to all Americans. Its absolutely sad that a few rich as&&oles from both the north and south brainwashed and drug the rest of the working class and poor into a war that didn't benefit anyone but the rich from either side. I totally agree with some here who say it wasn't totally about slavery like some want to claim. It was about the rich wanting to get richer at the expense of the poor both black and white.
It's not really about slavery, it never was. They don't really even care about slavery. This is nothing more than an extension of mob rule. The "entitled" and the "gimme more" and the liberals have discovered that if they act like a mob, they get what they want, and don't have any consequences. So, they are continuing the process, to mold the country into what they believe will give them everything they want.
They will try to change our reflection of history, our current policies, even our very language to effect this goal.
Slavery is merely a tool.


Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk
 
#32 ·
Sometimes I wonder how things would be now if the South had won, or a cease fire agreement like in the Korean stand off.
And how we would have dealt with the Nazis and Japan. I believe the nation would have reunited at some point anyway.
And about the only way the south ever could have won was if England had gotten involved. And they almost did.
 
#33 ·
Or if 200 or so men of the 20th Maine hadn't held the flank at Gettysburg..
G-d had a plan for this nation to be created, to stay united, to fight for the breakup of the Ottoman empire
in ww1, to help defeat hitler in ww2 as he attempted to destroy the chosen people. He raises up and removes leaders and nations.
 
#34 · (Edited)
But the Stars and Bars should still be respected, it once was up until the last eight years. Unbelievable that under Obama those age old monuments to Confederate leaders were being torn down. When years ago out of respect even the North saw them as very worthy opponents. Obama even wanted to take down Arlington House the old home of Robert E Lee.

A National Monument!! No telling what he wanted put up in its place. A statue of himself in a place of Valor.
Strength and Honor which he had none of.
 
#37 ·
You who think slavery was not right, if you really believed that you would be crying out against the muslims who still practice slavery,
Pastorp: Do you mean to say that if a person does not actively demonstrate disapproval of something that they say is wrong,they do not really believe that it is wrong?

Pete
 
#39 ·
being that I'm right and everyone else is wrong id be a busy boy protesting actively every aspect of life. :tango_face_grin:
Pastorp: Do you mean to say that if a person does not actively demonstrate disapproval of something that they say is wrong,they do not really believe that it is wrong?

Pete
 
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