Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language? - Page 4 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

I can't quite tell what's going on here, but it looks like a deliberate attempt to start something that amounts to nothing. It looks like rstrats either has nothing to do or is trolling for an argument, or is perhaps not a Christian searching scripture for an error. Why would he do that?
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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

wncchester,
re: "You mean ... you want to know how something happened but it couldn't have occurred in ether daytime nor nighttime?"

No. The Messiah said that 3 nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection would only allow for 2 nights. To account for the missing night, there have been some who have tried to explain it by saying that Matthew 12:40 is employing common colloquial/idiomatic speech of the time. I am simply asking anyone who uses that as an explanation, to provide examples to show that it was common.



re: " ...would you give us an example of what you mean?"

IF the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week (I don't think that scripture supports that idea) but IF it did happen on the 6th day of the week, then that would be one example where a night was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the night could have occurred.
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Miss Lilly,
re: "I can't quite tell what's going on here..."

What's been going on is that I've getting a bunch of grief for asking a legitimate question.



re: "...it looks like rstrats [may be] searching scripture for an error."

Absolutely not! I don't know where you're getting that idea?
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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-23-2016, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats
[size=1em]A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection would only allow for 2 nights. To account for the missing night, there have been some who have tried to explain it by saying that Matthew 12:40 is employing common colloquial/idiomatic speech of the time. I am simply asking anyone who uses that as an explanation, to provide examples to show that it was common. [/size]
[size=1em]At last, we have enough to get a handle on your point. [/size]

[size=1em]There is no "missing night" and we finally know what you're driving at. So, (as has previously been discussed on several posts in this thread) the Crucifixion had to occur on Thursday in order to make the prophesied "three days and three nights" work. Friday doesn't work no matter what time telling is used. But, two consecutive Sabbaths - on Friday and Saturday - makes everything fit perfectly. [/size]

[size=small]Jesus was in Jerusalem specifically for Passover. He became the ultimate Passover lamb. He had to have been killed (in daylight) on Thursday afternoon, prior to the beginning of Passover at sundown. That lets him lie in the ground Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights no matter what definition of a day is used.[/size]

[size=1em]That means the church (of Rome) forgot it's Jewish roots. A few hundred years after the Crucifixion they came up with the "Good Friday" Crucifixion for some reason and completely over looked a Friday Passover (i.e. a separate Sabbath day) so they made a conflict with prophecy in the process. [/size]


[size=1em]No one has been intentionally giving you grief. Your question was so unfocused and your responses to replies so cryptic you were coming across like a Jehovah Witness; it's hard to get them to ask a clear cut question too.[/size]

I don't have a Phd, not even a BA. But I do have a DD214.

Common sense is an uncommon virtue
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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

Using the word "Mesiah" is a telltale 'less you are a Jew.

aka BBF
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 11-24-2016, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Default Re: Is Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?

wncchester,
re: " So, (as has previously been discussed on several posts in this thread) the Crucifixion had to occur on Thursday in order to make the prophesied 'three days and three nights' work."

And I agree, but that's an issue for another topic.




re: "At last, we have enough to get a handle on your point [question]....Your question was so unfocused..."

Sorry, but I don't see what is not laser focused about the OP. The OP asks: "Does anyone know of any examples from the 1st century or before which forecast a daytime or a night time being involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place? If the verse is using common idiomatic language, there ought to be examples of that usage in order to be able to say that it was common". What is so unfocused or unclear about the question?
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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-14-2016, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
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Someone new looking in may know of examples.
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-29-2016, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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47-70,


re: "Using the word 'Mesiah' is a telltale 'less you are a Jew."


 


You didn't address your post to anyone, but if it is intended for me, I'm not. Any particular reason, though, for your comment?
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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With another new year, maybe someone new looking in will know of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language to try to explain the missing 3rd night, which would have to be the case with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. But in order to legitimately say that it was employing common, idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language, one would have to know of other instances where a daytime or a night time was predicted to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:53 AM
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So what is your view on the issue?

Why does Doctrine matter? Doctrine connects us to the drama of the story of Christ in history.

The ultimate test of our spirituality is the measure of our amazement at the grace of God.

Dr. Martin Lloyd-Jones
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