Graybeard Outdoors banner

.44Spl. bullet size

6K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  Miss Lilly 
#1 ·
Opinions needed: I'm going tomorrow to a reloading supply house I've never visited hoping to find some hard cast .44 bullets for my Ruger flattop, new model. I've had the gun for two years, but have not been able to hand load ammo that matches my accuracy demands. The best my gun will do is with factory DoubleTap jhp's, 200 grns. I want a heavier cast bullet, maybe 250 grains that will give me the accuracy of the old standby of 7.5 grains of Unique.

My question is, what size bullet should I buy? The LBT's from my .45Colt are 300 grains over 2400 and are absolutely amazing in accuracy, and I so want a load for the .44 that I can hunt with that has similar accuracy. Bullet diameter is my concern. Advice and suggestions greatly appreciated because I so love the Ruger flattop. Don't mind buying other propellants or primers, although I have many non-magnum large pistol primers and lots of Unique.

I would especially like to hear from .44 flattop owners. Velocity is not so nearly important to me as accuracy. I'm looking for 1.5 inches at 25 yards.

Thanks in advance. God bless.
 
#2 ·
I shoot .430" Lyman 429421 in mine. I have bought them from several places and all shoot far better than my old eyes and shaky hands can these days. In fact I've shot a few groups that would have made me proud back when I actually was a good shooter and shot competition weekly.

Mine has the 5.5" barrel and Bisley grip.
 

Attachments

#3 ·
Ive had probably 20 ruger 44 mags through the years and 430 seems to work well in all of them. I wouldn't fool with anything as heavy as a 300 in the special. If you like lbt bullets id look and see if he has about a 260 grain lfn. If I wanted the best possible accuracy id stick with an lfn and not a wfn and id prefer it with a gas check. Lots of good shootinging bullets for the 44s. Greybeard advice is sound too but ill say ive seen some 44s like various 240-250 swcs fine and some that didn't. For the most part any gun that will shoot decent will do well with an lfn. this advice goes against what I myself like. I like a keith or swc because they just look right. the 44 spec is a traditional old round and to me just should be loaded with a swc. But I'm willing to put in the work to overcome there sometimes cantankerous habbits. Ill tell you my favorite bullet for them but I doubt youll find them and will have to cast your own. Its the 240 rcbs swcgc. that bullet is accurate in about everything and still looks right and flys well at long range. Ive yet to find a 44 that didn't like it.
 
#5 ·
Well, I am a 45 shooter, but a bullet dosen't know what diameter it is. :) The cylinder openings, combined with the barrel dia. is whats needed to know... Measure the throats of the cylinder.


I too like the looks of a SWC best as a shooting bullet. It makes a good game bullet as well, IMHO just not as good as a WFN. If your going sonic a GC would be a good addition. As a rule I always go GC as when I buy bullets, (Or cast them) I dont know what I will need that bullet to do. To my mind, having one when its not needed isn't as detrimental as NOT having when when it IS needed. ::) :)


Here is some reading...


http://www.mountainmolds.com/helpRevolver.htm



http://www.lbtmoulds.com/measurebore.shtml






CW
 
#6 ·
Good advice, cw. I'm back from the "reloading supply house," which turned out to be smaller than my bathroom. But I did find some .430 SWC, hard cast, but not gas check. I really wanted gas check. I suppose I will have to order online, but these look very nice, except packaged poorly, just lose in a bag. No powder. They acted like Unique didn't exist. I do have some 2400 on hand; might try that. If I can get about 900fps with the accuracy I require I'll be okay. Thanks for the help.
 
#8 ·
Well, I'm late to the party with a response but the Oregon Trail Laser Cast 200 gr. RNFP .431" available from Midway and others, gives best accuracy in my 2 Ruger Flat Tops (7-1/2" an 4-5/8"). Those guns and my Bulldog prefer .431" to .430", and 200 to the 240 SWC. YMMV.
 
#9 ·
Miss Lilly: I do not believe that attaining 1.5" groups at 25 yds is not possible but, you are shooting a Ruger and Rugers are known for having a 'crush fit' barrel to the frame which in effect sizes the bullet to the diameter of the crush fit at the forcing cone as it moves down the barrel. If the crush fit at the forcing cone is smaller than the bore diameter it is doubtful you will ever have any accuracy with cast bullets. Also, you may need to measure the mouths of your chambers to see if any are undersized and should be opened up or at least polished.
Rugers are built like tanks and rough barrels are not uncommon. You may wish to venture on down to Veral Smith's forum and read what he has to say about bore-lapping or fire-lapping to improve accuracy with cast bullets and to attain jacketed bullet accuracy and velocity with cast bullets. Very informative. Hope this helps.
 
#10 ·
That helps very much, Mikey. I'm surprised that you said you don't believe 1.5 inch groups are impossible. Is that because of the gun or the cast bullets? 1.5 has always been my standard of "good enough." I achieved that and better with cast bullets in my .45C, 4/58 Blackhawk. Must I got to jacketed bullets to get that level of accuracy? If so, I will. Not overly educated on the .44Spl, except I am in love with it. My best groups so far have been factory DoubleTap jhp's, 180 grain, but they are not 1.5 inch capable, more like 2.5. I simply must do better with sufficient velocity for hunting. I thought maybe hard cast bullets would do that for me. Further advice is much appreciated.
 
#11 ·
I've shot a few 1.5" or so groups with mine using the standard Skeeter Skelton load. Most are larger because frankly these days a group that small by me is more accident than good shooting.

The chambers on mine are dead on what they should be. Ruger is making WAY better guns these days than they used to. In spite of all the naysayers all of the Ruger guns I've bought in the last few years are made the way they should be and no changes have been needed. I'd have to scope it to do better and I'm just not gonna do that.
 
#12 ·
every 44 spec ruger ive fooled with has been done right. Not overly large cylinder throats like the 45colts are known for and no barrel constrictions. I don't even recall a small framed 45 colt ruger that was effected. Mostly its there old large framed guns. Pretty much a guarantee that .430 bullets will work and my 44 spec will easily shoot 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards. As a matter of fact its pretty hard to put together a combo with it that wont. Ive shot sub 1 inch groups at 25 yards 1.5-2 inch groups at 50 yards with mine. Mine bisley and the two my buddy has are those kind of guns that you could stick some sand in the case and top it with a rock and it would still shoot well.
 
#13 ·
Miss Lilly: LOL. I hardly meant to imply that Ruger's are not capable of 1.5" groups at 25 yds and Lloyd said it much better than I apparently did.
It is just that I have found over the years that often the 'crush fit' of the Ruger barrel to the frame creates a 'obstruction' or a 'constriction' in the barrel that literally sizes down the cast bullet to the size of the obstruction/constriction and the slug then does not obdurate in the bore sufficiently to maximize the acuracy potential of the barrel. The cure for that is barrel-lapping or fire-lapping as per Veral Smith of LBT Bullets or Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets.

The barrel/fire lapping process allows you to shoot cast bullets with the accuracy and (and often) better velocity than with jacketed bullets because of the reduced friction coefficient of a properly lapped barrel, and with lapped barrels I have easily shot, 1.5" groups at 25 yds. as Lloyd has provided (although he is a better shot than I am........).

While it is true, as the boss has said, that Ruger has improved its quality as well as maintianing the strength of its firearms over the years, you just might have one that needs a bit of TLC, as in lapping.

There is no reason you cannot get your Ruger to shoot better groups with cast slugs (and I prefer the Keith sytle swc of 240-250 gns in the 44) and save yourself the $ of expensive defensive ammo that may not perform as well as a hard cast flat nosed slug. Hope this helps and good luck.
 
#14 ·
and mikey is also right. Although these 44 spec guns seem to be done right in the past more of them then not could benefit from lapping. Most of the problem child ruger single actions are 45 colts. Now if your talking the original redhawk (not super redhawks) they are about universally stricken with barrel constrictions
Mikey said:
Miss Lilly: LOL. I hardly meant to imply that Ruger's are not capable of 1.5" groups at 25 yds and Lloyd said it much better than I apparently did.
It is just that I have found over the years that often the 'crush fit' of the Ruger barrel to the frame creates a 'obstruction' or a 'constriction' in the barrel that literally sizes down the cast bullet to the size of the obstruction/constriction and the slug then does not obdurate in the bore sufficiently to maximize the acuracy potential of the barrel. The cure for that is barrel-lapping or fire-lapping as per Veral Smith of LBT Bullets or Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets.

The barrel/fire lapping process allows you to shoot cast bullets with the accuracy and (and often) better velocity than with jacketed bullets because of the reduced friction coefficient of a properly lapped barrel, and with lapped barrels I have easily shot, 1.5" groups at 25 yds. as Lloyd has provided (although he is a better shot than I am........).

While it is true, as the boss has said, that Ruger has improved its quality as well as maintianing the strength of its firearms over the years, you just might have one that needs a bit of TLC, as in lapping.

There is no reason you cannot get your Ruger to shoot better groups with cast slugs (and I prefer the Keith sytle swc of 240-250 gns in the 44) and save yourself the $ of expensive defensive ammo that may not perform as well as a hard cast flat nosed slug. Hope this helps and good luck.
 
#15 ·
i used to shoot as cast....every thing did not chamber
but the ones that chambers shot good....that was 30 years ago
then 20 years ago i got a sizing die..........430
every thing chambered........but one gun tumbled boolits
others leaded and did't shoot so well any more
many shot just fine with the .430


now i size .431.....and ALL my 44 guns are happy
 
#17 ·
I've been using .430 for my flattop Ruger, was using cast 245 to 250 grains, stumbled on a 429215 at Matt's bullets, this is a gas check design, these are 230 gr. and I really like these a lot, using the same powder charge I used for the heavier bullets. I like the 250's and still shoot them, but the 230 gr 429215 is rapidly becoming my favorite load.

I want a heavier cast bullet, maybe 250 grains that will give me the accuracy of the old standby of 7.5 grains of Unique.
I've been using a half grain less than that for all the weights above, seems to be enough for what I need most times for plinking.

If your looking to try some gas checks, try Matt's bullets, they have a 230 gr gas check swc 429215, I love them.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...ath=70&zenid=76ab11c9be05426c44e4db905176f430
 
#18 ·
Matt's bullets. Okay and thanks. I'm going there now.

The last batch of 250 grn. hardcast I bought were from an unknown maker in Jacksonville, FL. Nicely cast, but good grief are they ever dirty. The lube is all over the entire bullet. Cleaning them after loading takes about as long as the actual loading. Not yet test fired them. And they were not gas check. I would much rather have gas check. I sort of developed the opinion that gas check also means a cleaner base, less likely to be deformed.
 
#19 ·
gas checks are not really needed at 44 special levels. There more of a concern when your up at 44 mag levels. I'm not saying a gas check bullet in a 44 special is a total waste. Through my years of loading ive found gas check bullets give a slight accuracy benefit at any level but it is slight and for big game hunting it isn't going to be much of a factor. The cost of using them about doubles the cost of a bullet. At mag levels they allow softer alloys to be used and reduce leading and give better accuracy and in some cases much better accuracy. I have loads for all my 44 specials that use gas checked bullets. If I looked id bet you that the best loads for all my 44 spec guns use gas checks. But those loads are loads I use for hunting. For plinking and general use I use plain based bullets. Miss Lilly have you considered casting your own? Especially now that powder coating has come along. It saves you from having to buy a lube sizer. A guy (or gal) can pick up a used pot on ebay and lee mold for 20 bucks an lee sizer for another 25 bucks and either tumble lube the bullets or powder coat them. Id bet for the price of 500 cast bullets you could be all set up and make your own. Lead is still available cheap or even free if you look around. I know if I didn't cast my own bullets id have to look for a different hobby as I could never afford to shoot enough to even call it a hobby.
 
#20 ·
Miss said:
Matt's bullets. Okay and thanks. I'm going there now.

The last batch of 250 grn. hardcast I bought were from an unknown maker in Jacksonville, FL. Nicely cast, but good grief are they ever dirty. The lube is all over the entire bullet. Cleaning them after loading takes about as long as the actual loading. Not yet test fired them. And they were not gas check. I would much rather have gas check. I sort of developed the opinion that gas check also means a cleaner base, less likely to be deformed.

JAX !!!!
hi neighbor....i am in fernancina just north of you
 
#21 ·
I have not loaded 44 Special Rounds for a Ruger for time just a Smith 624. As suggested the be accuracy came with the .430 bullet. To get there I use a .431 bullet sizing die and basically shoot the bullet as cast. This stopped leading problems in the Rugers. Another thing that will ruin your day is bullets that are cast too hard giving rise to gas cutting. I'd look to .430 diameter 429421 style bullet Try those Skeeter Skelton loads. Incidentally, I was loading for three Rugers and a S&W 624.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top