The 30-30 in Combat - Page 7 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #91 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 04:14 PM
Dee
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstewart44
You know I was just thinking, if our west coast militia boys during WWll were armed with the venerable model 94 in 3030 they undoubtably would be using Rem Corelokt or Win exposed lead FP ammo. I think the average citizen too would be armed with expanding point hunting ammo. I know what the exit wounds look like on hog and deer with these rounds. Any invading soldiers would be dealing with much nastier wounds and more dead than with FMJ rounds in the NW forests.
Well actually gstewart44, I have seen the exit wound of the above described on a homo sapien. It was a little less than half dollar size but fatal. Thru the chest, out the back. I don't remember however, if it was 150 round nose, or 170 flat point though. Didn't seem to matter to the recipient.
I prefer 150s myself. To shoot, not to catch.

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post #92 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by gstewart44
You know I was just thinking, if our west coast militia boys during WWll were armed with the venerable model 94 in 3030 they undoubtably would be using Rem Corelokt or Win exposed lead FP ammo. I think the average citizen too would be armed with expanding point hunting ammo. I know what the exit wounds look like on hog and deer with these rounds. Any invading soldiers would be dealing with much nastier wounds and more dead than with FMJ rounds in the NW forests.
FMJ 30-30 cartridges were made by almost every company until recently. One hunter I knew preferred them due to less meat loss.

If you go to this page, then scroll to whatever manufacturer you want and look for "FMJ" you can see a photo of that FMJ cartridge.
http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/

For example:

[img]

[img]

Bruce

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post #93 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcp
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstewart44
You know I was just thinking, if our west coast militia boys during WWll were armed with the venerable model 94 in 3030 they undoubtably would be using Rem Corelokt or Win exposed lead FP ammo. I think the average citizen too would be armed with expanding point hunting ammo. I know what the exit wounds look like on hog and deer with these rounds. Any invading soldiers would be dealing with much nastier wounds and more dead than with FMJ rounds in the NW forests.
FMJ 30-30 cartridges were made by almost every company until recently. One hunter I knew preferred them due to less meat loss.

If you go to this page, then scroll to whatever manufacturer you want and look for "FMJ" you can see a photo of that FMJ cartridge.
http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/

For example:

[img]

[img]

Bruce

Wow thanks for the info. Never have seen a full metal jacket 3030. I think the "less meat damage" you referenced above would be reason to instead use a CoreLokt or a Jacketed FP if the 3030 were called upon to defend the USA by militia or civilian.

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post #94 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-07-2010, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

i have loaded 110 gr FMJ m1 carbine slugs

only shot a few so far

very little recoil.....not checked velocity yet 2700 i suspect/read

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post #95 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-08-2010, 02:07 AM
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30-30 for the 21st century

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post #96 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Fun read.
I recall that some 30/30's were issued and used in combat--but without refrence I will defer. It seems this was at the Canal and early on fighting--when even the Johnson and Bolt .06 saw action.
The 30 cal carbine was used but most issued the weapons did not care for them, for reasons of range a firepower, however, in full auto they were acceptable----this was in WWll, Korea.
Bill Yost, my old buddy of a Gunney in 4 capaigns in the Pacific, said they were junk and useless---but he said that of the Thompson and the M-1--all were discarded as soon as they could get a B A R.
Shotguns have long been issued too troops in WWl, ll, Korea, Nam and still today.
30/30's are all that is needed for most hunting---I have never had the opportunity for a 300 yard shot in E. Texas--I have in the Davis Mountains.
I prefer a shotgun in the home.
I would take a 30/30 into combat in gurilla style or defense.
It certainly is not an ideal offensive weapon (if you can distinguish offense from defense in a fire fight).
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post #97 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Williamlayton: My father-in-law who was an Army Captain in New Guinea, and the Philippines during WWII would agree with you. He passed on the M1 carbine and carried a M1 rifle. When you are up against serious people you want a serious round.

He knew a good rifle having been raise on a farm down on the border near Douglas, AZ. The 30-30 Marlin I have was passed to me after his death. It came after he purchased a 30-06 when posted to the Alaskan Territory in the 1950’s.

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post #98 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

I have seen pictures of coast watchers in WW2 with Winchester 94's on islands . As to the carbine - with hollow point ammo it becomes a different animal . If the new 327 fed mag is good then the carbine is as good and approaching the 357 mag. Think of it as a pistol that has better control .

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post #99 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:00 PM
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This is a discussion about the potential role of the 30-30 lever rifle as a combat/defensive weapon. But since the M1 Carbine has come up in the discussion any one that might be interested in what the Carbine is capable of, check out the post in the, "Ask Veral Smith a Question", forum on this site. He gave me some good info. on the subject. I think it is still on the first page,"LBT .30 Carbine Bullet". The 30-30 still has more power than the .30 carbine but it can sneak up to it pretty close. I have both of these guns and would reach for the Carbine first, but just because of the 15 and 30rd mags. I wouldn't feel too under gunned in an urban or rural fight with my Marlin 30-30 or .45 Colt.http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.p...,193888.0.html

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post #100 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
After the INFAMOUS North Hollywood shoot out we used the lessons learned as a training film of WHAT NOT TO DO.
The result of North Hollywood was more about miserable tactics than fire power. Most ALL patrol vehicle involved in the affray had a pump shotgun IN THE TRUNK. These officers seldom done more than qualify with the shotgun every year. They didn't train with it, and their training kicked in. They left it in the trunk.
.
If any of the officers had a 30-30 rather than a bird shot loaded shot gun in their trunk it would have been a very different fight in hollywood.
while much laughed at in the gun rags the 30-30 has far more energy than the 44 mag out of a pistol and would have penitrated the pistol rated vests and body armor the two bank robers were wearing. Having slugs in the shotguns would have changed the fight as the slug may or may not have penitrated but would have broken ribs with chest hits at the 40 yard range of this shoot out. Arming the police with AR's while not a bad idea is over kill to having to cow tow to the locals and use bird shot #4's in the shotguns by the LAPD and if the Military were not giving surplus guns away slugs would have been cheaper than rifles, training, ammo and gear to go with the rifle.

On to the 30-30 in combat. Many were used in the Mexican revolution in the early ninteen teens. many other designs were out there were surplus and current 93's, Krags, 98 mausers, Win 95's and others but most used the 94 30-30 for many reasons. good reliable rifle with large amounts of cheap ammo available.
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post #101 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-10-2010, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Not a 30-30, But there was a large battle fought between Turkey and Russia in 1870s where Turks used the Winchester M1866 rifle, 44 henry caliber (44-40?) Turks began firing at Russian troops when within 3000 yards with Martini-peabody rifles. But when Russians closed to 200 yards, switched to the Winchester rifle and promptly began firing deadly salvos at advancing Russian troops. Each Turk soldier had 500 rds of ammo. Russian casualties were quite large. Turks will eventually lose battle, but outnumbered about 4 to 1 by Russians. Story about battle.

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Turkey...evnaDelay.html
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post #102 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-13-2010, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K9-Handler
Lots of different topics under one banner! ;D

There's all kinds of combat and conditions. In a jungle, something like an AR rules. Open desert, then something heavier like an M14 might be the ticket. In European woods, a lever or bolt would rule.
****, where I was in 'Nam the terrain was more like Arizona or New Mexico than jungle. You can't deal in generalities.

Home defense? Give me a pump 12 ga. in anything from 4-ought to #2, but probably not double-ought. Too much chance for wall penetration.
Besides, I'm surprised it isn't mentioned here. The BEST home defense is racking the slide on a pump! ;D If the perp doesn't get the audible message, than the lead one follows. Just one "SNACK-SNACK" from the top of the stairs will probably be followed by the sound of beating feet. Unless there are drugs involved, of course. :
Of course racking a '94 Winchester would have a similar effect.
Wall, penetration? My family is behind me. Only perps are in front of me.

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post #103 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-13-2010, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

)
[/quote]
My family is behind me. Only perps are in front of me.
[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. All depends on where people are when the stuff happens. And lots of us have neighbors that could be in the line of fire.

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post #104 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

If my family is behind the perp, I'd still prefer sighted rifle to a shotgun for their safety.
While I realize it has happened, the chances of hitting someone outside the home are minimal.

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post #105 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-16-2010, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: The 30-30 in Combat

Shooting a 3030 rifle, or any other high powered rifle, inside a residence and expecting to NOT ENDANGER the public at large, outside the home is BOTH UNREALISTIC, AND IRRESPONSIBLE.
While EVERY EFFORT, should be exercised to protect ones family, it does not give anyone, the right to endanger other innocents OUTSIDE THE HOME, and to take that upon ones self should be considered CRIMINAL, and that person SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, unless circumstance were dire, and the burden of proof that a better alternative was not available, should be PLACED DIRECTLY ON THE HOME OWNER.
A shotgun with bird shot INSIDE the house is FAR MORE PRACTICAL, AND SAFE, AND EFFECTIVE, than turning rifle rounds lose, to go where they may. Even firing a pistol round, ESPECIALLY THE 9mm, are taking a chance on injury or death, to an outside innocent.
Drive by shootings into houses by gangs, and their results, should be more than enough evidence of these facts, for even the most feeble minded defenders of the home.
Bullets change direction almost 100% of the time, after passing thru a body, and when ones family is BEHIND the perp, they are not safe IF the round exits the perp, and are in fact, in more danger than the neighbor.

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