Author Topic: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?  (Read 1776 times)

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Offline 1911crazy

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1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« on: November 22, 2010, 04:33:35 pm »
I'm browsing the 1911's again looking at different calibers thanks to Mikey here with his 38 super he's always talking about.  Plus i'm at a point why buy the same caliber pistol over and over.  I'd like to maybe get something different to shoot and play with.  I'm looking for advise and comments on wether its good or a bad choice.  But the calibers i'm thinking of are;

38 super,  Is this one on the top of the heap when its compared to the 9mm luger, 9mm largo and 38acp? Is it a good defensive round?  Is it comfortable to shoot recoil wise?

9x23 winchester,  Is this one the badest of the bad, knock down power wise of the 9mm pistols?  Is this one hard to handle recoil wise?  I don't think anyone offers any 1911's in this caliber so an after market nowlin barrel maybe the way to go. I read about the silver tip winchester ammo 125gr 9x23 ammo crono'd at 1450+fps.  I guess its close to the 357SIG.

357SIG,  I was always interested in this caliber but i don't think it comes in a 1911 style pistol.

10mm,  How is this one power wise? How's the recoil?  Does it equal the 45acp in power?  

Please your thoughts???

If you have a better caliber or a more interesting caliber please post it. I'm just thinking of something other than 45acp to play with. I'm stuck with the 45acp if thats all they offer but we can change out the barrel and refit the barrel bushing to the national match. But i'd rather get a used 1911 to rework it.

Graybeard Outdoors

1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« on: November 22, 2010, 04:33:35 pm »
 

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 05:03:07 pm »
Well,  how about the obvious - a .22 or .17 conversion kit?  Or for that matter, a new GSG 1911 in .22 for about $325.00.  I have one, and it shoots great.  If you are a handgun hunter, there are several high power drop in kits for the 1911, including the .460 Rowland - It pushes a 230 grain bullet at 1350 fps.

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Mikey

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 05:19:15 am »
1911:  the 38 Super is more powerful than any of the 9s, except for the 9x23, and is a excellent defensive cartridge, as is the 9x23 winchester.  You are correct in that the 9x23 is the badest of the 9mm bad boys and it clocks about 1425-1450 with that 125 gn slug.  This is what the 38 Super clocks when loaded to its full potential and before ammo companies went to 'liability loads' when they realized the hotter 38 Supers could be loaded and chambered in the older 38 Auto.  The older 38 auto however started out with a 130 gn slug at about 1280'/sec, which is what the 38 Super is now, but the 38 Auto was loaded down to about 1080 for liability.

The 357 Sig is a snappy round that has found some favor but not a lot in the smaller more concealable handguns.  It is indeed a powerful 9mm bore that outclasses the 9x19 and even the 38 Super inits current factory loadings.  I do not believe the 357 Sig is chambered in 1911s but you can certainly obtain a barrel in that caliber if you have a 1911 in 40 S&W and you could just switch them out.  The 357 Sig was supposed to clock at 1425 with the 125 gn 9mm slug but it rarely gets more than 1350-1375 from the shorter barrels.  I think if you could get a gov't length bbl in 357 Sig you could have a decent small game field piece as well as a hot defensive load.

The 10mm outpowers all those rounds mentioned above and recoil must be either tamed down with heavier springs or lighter loads - the 10mm is a powerful load and outpowers the 45 auto.

If I was going for another caliber in a 1911 I would get a dedicated 9mm slide and contact Bar-Sto barrels and ask them to cut me a 7.65 or 30 Luger (same round) bbl for the 1911 - that would make it into a nice flat shooting varmit pistol.  HTH.

Offline Range Rider

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 05:33:36 am »
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg180-e.htm

I have owned one of these for years.  They are big and powerful a 1911 all grown up. They can handle the .45 Win Mag or the big .50. These are popular guns for folks in Big Bear country.

RR
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 07:42:36 am »
First here's what caused this post.  I been going towards the 9mm largo in surplus pistols just for fun, but i found out the +p 9mm luger ammo has the same power as the 9mm largo.  I thought the longer cased 9mm largo ammo had more power over the 9mm luger.  So i guess it ain't going to happen in a surplus pistol. Since i want 3 new 1911's in the future(after the holidays) i'd ask what caliber should i be looking at here.  I'm really not up on all the different calibers for pistols.  I been a 44mag revolver guy for most of my handgun life (CCW). The 1911a1 chinese norinco has really changed my life when it comes to auto's now. I just don't want the same 45acp over and over if i can avoid it. Yet i don't want an over sized cannon like an auto mag.  I just can't carry the heavier handguns anymore.

I haven't looked at every 1911 manufacturer yet but what i do see is the 38 super seems to be more available. I don't see anything in 9x23 win at all.

Mikey;  You convinced me i need a 1911 in 38 super.  Maybe the RockIland Armory in nickel/5" barrel thats the first one on my want list. You nailed this one.

Ok i haven't got that far into the options bigger than 10mm yet but anyonewho wants to chime is, is welcome too.  Lets get it all out about what choices I/we have for our future buys/projects. I don't know where the 45 magnun, 45gap or the 50cal 1911 falls into place either.

Since my camp up north is in the heart of blackbear country when my kids were small i would carry my 357 ruger snubbie not to alarm them when we hiked.  So getting a larger caliber in the 1911 maybe possible too. I just can't lug the rifle all the time. I don't want it for hunting its for upclose personal protection.

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 04:32:07 pm »
9X23 was/is a race gun caliber---check out the offerings from STI, one of the finest small manufacturing operations in the US.
SVI, also will let you build your dream---the way you want it.
I have an STI in 9X23 and it is a dream to shoot-
Once again--a .38 is a 9mm is a .357 mag.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline TreeFarmer

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 07:15:00 pm »
Actually the baddest of the bad as 9mm's go is the 9X25 Dillon which throws the 125 grain SilverTip at about 1700 fps. I have 2 custom Colt 1911's in 9X23 and 3 .38 Supers dearly enjoy shooting them. IMHO the .38 Super is what our military should have adopted as their pistol round.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 07:53:12 am »
9X23 was/is a race gun caliber---check out the offerings from STI, one of the finest small manufacturing operations in the US.
SVI, also will let you build your dream---the way you want it.
I have an STI in 9X23 and it is a dream to shoot-
Once again--a .38 is a 9mm is a .357 mag.
Blessings

William;   The .38/9mm/357mag is in an auto pistol not a reveolver.  I figure if we can get the 357mag performance out of a 1911 pistol thats a stopper for sure.

I know the 9mm luger isn't a man stopper caliber and the smaller 9mm's aren't any better but carrying something small is better than carrying nothing i guess.  Maybe i just need to get back into carrying the heavy irons again.   From what i'm hearing it takes too many shots to stop the bad guys.

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2010, 03:20:19 am »
What I am saying is that a .38 and a 9mm and a .357 are the same size for practical work.
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Offline odoh

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 02:11:37 pm »
I tried the 460 rowland drop in conversion and like it very much. Completely different than anything else I've experienced yet w/the advantages of the 1911 platform, slim, lean but meaner and a heck of a lot of f u n :). Same mags, reloading dies etc of course if going for its max performance, tuffer bullets need be on the menu. For me, its gonna be a long honeymoon w/thus'un.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2010, 01:17:40 pm »
What I am saying is that a .38 and a 9mm and a .357 are the same size for practical work.
Blessings

Diameter is diameter but the power does differ.  I feel like a kid again in a Five & dime candy store with a $1 and not sure what i want yet.  But i do like the 38 super (its on my list) and the 9 x23 win too.  The 9 x23 win just maybe a complete buiild that i want to do.  I need to find a local ffl dealer who will order me what i want frame wise so i can start my builds.  One company offers the new frame and slide already matched together. That would save me time. I need to see what tooling is offered to fit all the parts for inside the frame too. I would like to do all my own work.  I just got some tooling for doing rifle barrels too. Once i get a dealer who will get me exactly what i want in the frame and slide we can get my first build going (9x23).  Since i already have the slide kit and a frame kit (inner parts) i will need a frame for these parts too.

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2010, 03:49:14 pm »
Have you looked a STI?
There are some differences in  the build of a 9x23.
Read some of Dane Burns thoughts on how to build.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 04:53:21 pm »
The STI looks pretty good but i get confused with all the different models, it may take me a while to look for a model.  But i'll look further into it.

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2010, 02:52:26 am »
Because of the pressures, read up on Dane's thought about that build.
You can do it but there is a need to understand the pressures.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 06:10:01 am »
Because of the pressures, read up on Dane's thought about that build.
You can do it but there is a need to understand the pressures.
Blessings

Thanks lots of info at Danes site.

One question how is the recoil on the 9x23 winchester round?  I think the higher in pressure the worse it gets.  But the 9x23 win round is said to be a hotter than a 357mag.

I been looking at the nowlin barrels for changing the calibers.  Then we need to tune the higher pressures with the proper recoil spring. I just tuned my norc with an 18# recoil spring but i maybe could go even higher.  It sped up the cycle timing, time wise yet shortened up the movement with less overtravel and cut the recoil down alot.  The 1911 is more controllable and much faster on rechambering the next round.  It cycles in warp speed now.  Its a much better handling pistol than it was in the beginning. Can the 9x23 be tamed too? I know i want my cake and eat it too but why not if it can be done.  I never thought the 1911(norc) could be so awesome to shoot once we tune it to the ammo were using.  Right now my thoughts are with the 1911/45acp the 18# recoil spring is a good all around spring rate for any 45acp ammo.  My point is if i go higher in spring rate its limited to the ammo i'm tuning with only.(maybe)

For those who mentioned the 22lr i'm thinking one of those too.  I have a short window of oppertunity to fill in some gaps with my list of wants.

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2010, 12:13:32 am »
I went to a 16# in my 38 Super.  If you go too heavy you limit yourself to hotter loads only. (Standars spring is 14#). 8)
NRA Life Member, Retired Air Force, Grandfather:   RIA 38 Super, , Vaquaro .357, Golden Boy 39A .22,  54cal GPR, 54 cal Lyman plains pistol, 45 cal Kentucky Rifle perc, Taurus M 66 357 mag

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2010, 01:20:04 am »
The build includes a lot more detail than springs.
The fact is, my STI in 9x23 is just as mild as the .38 super until I load it to capacity---I don't feel the need for that--no bears in my neck of the asfalt jungle.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2010, 07:53:25 am »
The build includes a lot more detail than springs.
The fact is, my STI in 9x23 is just as mild as the .38 super until I load it to capacity---I don't feel the need for that--no bears in my neck of the asfalt jungle.
Blessings

William; Your right i don't always shoot 44mag & 357mag out of my revolvers too i shoot the 44 special and 38 special too.  I don't waste HP's hot or max loaded on paper targets.  But at the end of my shoot i will shoot a few max rounds to keep the feel of the hotter rounds.

I was thinking about a brand new Rock Iland armory 1911a1 in 45acp, 5" barrel in nickel finish.(plain jane in nickel) shooter / beater Under $500

The new citadel in 38 super with nickel finish 5" barrel too. (this comes with some bells/whistles)  $800

For a pistol in 9x23 i have a chance to get a new Auto ordnance army ww2 copy 1911a1/5" barrel cheap.  Under $400 and i believe the nowlan barrel kit in 9x23 win is under $300.  Its suppose to be a drop in barrel kit but i figure a little fitting maybe needed too. I figure to add some goodies too like the larger adjustabe sights/beaver tail/adjustabe trigger.  But for $700+ the add ons its in my price range being frugal(cheap) or a tight wad with my $$. est. $850 Or an STi.

The Kahr Thompson Custom in stainless in 45acp with  5" barrel (this has most of the bells and whistles for $800)

Thats my 4 choices so far that i'm thinking about. It could change too. I'll just go one 1911 at a time.

Offline CherokeeT

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2010, 07:57:05 am »
I have several 1911's in 38 Super and highly recomend it over the 9mm - 38 Super is more powerful and in my experience is more reliable.  I also have conversion barrels for these in 9mm so I do use 9mm and have made direct comparisons in the same guns - 38 Super wins.  For double stack 38 Supers, I recommend the use of 38 Super Comp brass from Starline.  10mm is a great cartridge and beats the 9, 38 Super, 9x23, 45 ACP, I like it and shot it, but unless you load it to its potential, you might consider the 40 S&W.  Just my experience.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2010, 02:02:17 pm »
10mm???  #4 ?

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2010, 11:28:39 pm »
When I stated I went to a 16# spring in my 38 Supers;  it had nothing to do with kits or 9X23.  It reduced muzzle flip and put my empties together insted of flinging them hither and yon.  It also prevented slamming of the slide with hotter 38 Super loads.  Not everyone wants something bigger than the 38 Super..I have arthritis and the reduced recoil from the 45acp alows me to shoot longer  and use less powder than shooting the 45. 8)
NRA Life Member, Retired Air Force, Grandfather:   RIA 38 Super, , Vaquaro .357, Golden Boy 39A .22,  54cal GPR, 54 cal Lyman plains pistol, 45 cal Kentucky Rifle perc, Taurus M 66 357 mag

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2010, 03:58:39 am »
10 mm , well its the best cal. IMHO . Pros- flat shooting , lots of power , aval. factory ammo to offer a few. Cons- ammo cost more than 45.

9 mm , cost less to shoot .

40 S&W nice gun mine was a 3 in bbl gun wish it had been a 5 inch bbl.

My next 1911 will be a 10mm long slide if I can find one at a reasonable cost. Then a 38 super in a 5 inch gun. I would also like a 40 again. Had one in a 3 inch gun but son wanted it.

Like many you want something different you must decide what you want the gun to do. Hunt , target ,self defence or just be different .

The 357 sig IMHO offers little other than being a loud 9 . Some of the 38's you noted offer alot in the matches and fill a nitch.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2010, 07:33:24 am »
357 SIG is loud.
There is a llot of comparison going on here and some is not reaaly applicable.
Let's compare:
357 (any make or model), 38, 9mm, 38super, 9x23 suold not/cannot be compared to 10mm or .45 either.
The 10mm is a vastly superior round to any of these (.40 ca and 10mm are the same size)---flatter shooting with a larger, heavier bullet.
The flip side of the coin is---it is definately a lot more kick. The reason it was dropped from the FBI + the Delta Elite showed some tendencies to develope cracks in the frame---therefore came the .40
I do not care for the recoil from either the .40 or the .10mm---now the .357 sig is a different story---loud and quick/snappy recoil but not the heavy roll of the .40---at least that is how it feels to me.
You take a look at what it is for in the place and usage and make decisions.
As I said, in the Aspault---how in blazes do you spell asphault  :P---jungle i reside in--the .38super or the 9x23 works well----for games, yes, also.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 10:57:52 am »
William its your fault I even looked at the 38 super !  :D
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Online williamlayton

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2010, 02:44:09 pm »
 :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I really do like both the super and 9x23 they are a joy.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: 1911's in Different calibers ? ?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2010, 02:02:09 pm »
Thats it next month after the holidays i'm ordering a rock iland armory 1911 5" barrel in 38 super with a nickel finish as my first 1911 of 2011.  This is going to be the year of the 11's i'm sure. You guys convinced me on my first one.  I like the kahr Thompson custom in stainless/45acp.

 

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