Author Topic: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s  (Read 11460 times)

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Offline saltydog

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #120 on: February 04, 2012, 05:56:37 am »
Why a 45 acp ? - ask Jeff Cooper. 


Offline ironglowjr

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2012, 01:08:51 pm »
First of all the 1911 is the reason why all other semi autos are here. The high dollar ones and the lower end ones differ in that (i am sure many will agree) the higher dollar ones have far better machining and tighter tolerances. The lower cost ones are fine they just need a bit of TLC which I dont mind at all I love, and many do love refining there own Pistol.

Offline Dixiejack

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2012, 03:39:15 pm »
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider a low dollar 1911?  What do you consider an average dollar amount to tweak it up?  The reason I ask is because I have a Colt .22 RF conversion and I have been trying to find a used 1911 to build a 1911-.22 pistol on that I don't have to pay a new price for.  Since 1911's have gotten so popular, used one's sell about the same price as new one's.

Offline 1911crazy

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #123 on: March 11, 2012, 05:30:52 pm »
My norinco 1911a1 cost me $300, a new barrel USGI 5''  45acp $59,  a new national match barrel bushing $12,   a full length guide rod kit w/18# spring $9 and full wrap around rubber grips $8.   Now she is all tweeked in and tuned.  I hope i didn't go over board and spend too much? But i wanted to do a low budget build just to see how it will shoot using cheap parts.   She now shoots 1 clover leaf per 8rd mag. @ 25yds.
Low dollar;  Basic 1911's.
new auto ordnance army ww2 copy 1911a1  $389 in '05    (plain jane 1911's no frills, no bells and no whistles) Great shooter/dependable
new springfield armory GI Mil Spec 1911a1 $424 in '05    (plain jane  1911's no frills, no bells and no whistles) Great shooter / dependable
What am i missing out on by not spending up to $3,000 for a high end 1911?   If i spent up to that much for a new high dollar 1911 and it didn't function i'd be looking for the CEO of that company and express my thoughts but i'd be really upset after spending that much cash on one gun.
can someone tell us what makes a high dollar 1911 worth that much more over the rest of them?

Offline Dixiejack

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2012, 12:08:26 am »
That's a darn good build for the price, especially for the accuracy.  Of course that was 7 years ago. I haven't seen any kind of used one for less than $400 lately.  Like I said, since the 1911 has gained such popularity the price is going to remain high. 

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2012, 04:43:01 pm »
I stated earlier I'm on a list to get one of the Rugers.  However, I expect it to function perfectly out of the box and print within 2" at 25 yards.  If it does not, or I find a review stating it needs broken in, I ain't spending the money to break it in when there are so many cheaper plastic guns out there that will shoot that kind of group with no breaking in.   
My reasoning is that if it jams out of the box, someday it will jam again.  The plastic guns do not malfunction.  They ain't pretty and they ain't classy and they ain't cool, but they work . 
My dream gun is a 3" 1911 that works, but I know that's a fantasy, at least for me.  Been there done that too many times.  On my income, it's just too risky to put out the $1000 plus, hoping it will work when I know the $400 SR9c will absolutely work.
Some of you have seen my posts regarding 9mm vs .45acp.  There's no difference in penetration, and percentage wise, the 9mm expands more.  No, the 9 can't expand to a bullet that starts out as a .45, but the 9 can and does expand to at least .60 with +P ammo.  I'd rather have that sure fire power than a 95% chance of firing in .45.  A 45 is not the end all pistol caliber.  Maybe it was in recent years now passed, but no more, not with the current generation of ammo technology. 
I believe the biggest selling basis for the expensive 1911 is the cool factor.  No one will ever make a handgun with more cool factor, unless it's a Colt Single Action Army.  A 1911 hides very well, it's got a rich history and plenty of oomph for its intended purpose.  I don't much like the blocky plastic guns, but I use and depend on them.  They absolutely work, each and every one, be the Glock or Ruger, and that can't be said for the 1911's.
The 1911 saw its time with the military, but those guns were sloppy.  If you shook them, the rattled.  The tight fitting demanded today stole the reliability of those World War pistols.  The issued military 1911 fired hardball like a house a'fire, but if anyone ever measured a 25 yard group from one of them, they'd find it way too wide to fit the modern day notion of an acceptable full size pistol.  The 1911's time has come and gone.    Except for the cool factor that keeps them in demand. 
Sure, lots of posters here can say they have a Colt or Kimber or even a Sprinfield that is utterly reliable, but those few are very lucky or they had to "fix" it with replacement parts. 
My point is this:  Take 100 1911's out of the box and shoot 'em.  Then take 100 plastic guns out of the box and shoot them.  All of the plastic guns will work without a failure, but my experience and judgment tells me that less than half of the 1911's will work. 
Still, I'm a sucker for the 1911 and suppose I always will be.  Can't wait to get my hands on that Ruger. 
   

Offline Avyctes

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2012, 04:11:11 am »
I agree, they are beautiful.  The collector in me could buy one a week and never get tired of it due to the disparity and variety available.  I've only owned two Springfields, and other than those two, have only shot two other 1911s, both SAs.  Just never had the chance to shoot a Colt or Para or any of the other myriad brands out there.  Out of the four I've shot I've never had a misfire except shooting hollow point reloads through my first one, which it definitely did not like.  I didn't hold it against the gun, however, because I knew it was designed for military ball ammo.  I don't think you can fairly hold that against it - it's like blaming your VHS player for not playing DVDs - just wasn't designed with that in mind.  Later I did have a gunsmith buddy polish the feed ramp, and after that it fed all of the rest of that 500 rounds of homegrown semi wad cutters I'd bought.  But with standard ball ammo I've never had a failure to feed or fire or eject that I can recall.  Sure wouldn't mind a Night Hawk Custom GRP though!


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Offline Dixiejack

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2012, 04:13:29 am »
Yesterday,I was in a LGS where a friend of mine trades.  I was looking at the 1911 clones and saw a "cool" used Norinco for $525. and a "cool" used Springfield for $699.  Between these two "cool" used 1911's was sitting a brand new Remington 1911R1 for $649. If I hadn't recently bought a 1911R1, I would have jumped on it. The salesman told me they sell any brand 1911 style as fast as they can get them.  He said they make more profit on used models than on new one's.  He also said that in order to get one (1) Ruger 1911 per month from their whole seller, they have to buy 50 other Ruger firearms.  They have had one in 6 months. 

Offline Steven Cline

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #128 on: May 31, 2012, 09:16:05 pm »
all these " la tee dah" kimber, colt, and the others charging up to and over $2000.00 for a 1911 days are numbred. who in the hell would pay that kind of money for any kind of a hand gun is way past me. Ruger and remington are going to put these guy in need of a bail out. just as well for most of us.


hmmmmm, interesting


Here is a different perspective.


I have a Kimber Super Match II bought for about $1600 and a $550 Citadel I won shooting the Kimber.


I would trust my life to the Kimber over the Citadel without a moments hesitation.  It's a much better gun. More accurate, more dependable, better fit, finish, and even appearance.  It cost more because it is more.


As an owner of both (and a Kimber Custom II which falls in the middle) I can attest that there is a clear difference between the three.  A clear $1000 difference.


Remington won't put Colt or Kimber (or STI, or Cameron, or Wilson, or Les Baer, or any other high end 1911 manufacture out of business).  Remington isn't the first mid-low range 1911 manufacture to come along and the aforementioned 1911 manufactures are doing just fine.


Who would spend that much?  Those who want better?  Those who know better?  Those who just bought better? 


You be happy with your gun.  But your opinion doesn't dictate any reality.


Better yet, go pick up a Cameron custom Limited or a Akai Custom... rack it a few times, feel the trigger, then compare it to a Remington 1911... not even close.
I'm not "special."  I'm capacity challenged.
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Offline Steven Cline

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #129 on: May 31, 2012, 09:22:45 pm »
... The plastic guns do not malfunction. 


I watched a Glock puke all over it's self at the Space City Class earlier this year.
I seen a good friend's Glock malfunction a number of times at matches.
eta: I had a G23 which broke the slide stop... twice.
While my 1911 didn't.

In fact I've got years of videos posted to youtube and you can find maybe one malfunction per 10k and I'm approaching 75k through my KSM II.


I've watched an entire squad of 1911s at the Texas Single Stack Shootout go through the match with zero malfunctions.


I'm sorry, dear sir, but you are repeating a falsehood and over stating the dependability of Glocks and under stating the dependability of 1911s.  The facts don't support your assertion.
I'm not "special."  I'm capacity challenged.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #130 on: June 01, 2012, 04:56:51 am »
... The plastic guns do not malfunction. 


I watched a Glock puke all over it's self at the Space City Class earlier this year.
I seen a good friend's Glock malfunction a number of times at matches.
While my 1911 didn't.

In fact I've got years of videos posted to youtube and you can find maybe one malfunction per 10k and I'm approaching 75k through my KSM II.


I've watched an entire squad of 1911s at the Texas Single Stack Shootout go through the match with zero malfunctions.


I'm sorry, dear sir, but you are repeating a falsehood and over stating the dependability of Glocks and under stating the dependability of 1911s.  The facts don't support your assertion.

I had a G 23 that would not feed . it was a factory rebuilt gun . Its ser # was B?? 666 . It was a police trade in and had wear so at one time it worked. The factory repaired it and paid shipping and gave me a couple mags. GOOD SERVICE . NO GREAT SERVICE . but they have a service dept for a reason . They have most likely trained more people to work on their guns than any other manfacturer again for a reason. I have a Colt 1911 that has never had a malfunction and a Browning HP that has not. I don't remember either the Bretta or sig I once had ever barking . I know of one police officer while in a fight hit a bad guy with his Glock and the slide seperated from the frame side ways. Never heard of a 1911 doing so. Then there was the post here where a guy was shot in WW2 and his 1911's frame  stopped the bullet would a plastic gun do that ?
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #131 on: June 01, 2012, 06:34:02 pm »
My '90 springfield series 90 would jam 1rd per 8rd mag until i tuned the extractor now its been flawless.  My norc and auto ordnance have been flawless so far and my new '05  springer seems flawless right out of the box its the key start made in brazil.
After browsing last weekend there is only wall to wall plastic pistols in used handguns.  The 1911's used are scarce.  The'll never pull a plastic gun from my cold dead fingers.
 

Offline Savage

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #132 on: June 02, 2012, 02:19:18 am »
Any pistol of current manufacture, poly, steel, alloy, or any combination thereof when properly maintained, fed good ammo from a decent magazine should function properly. No one platform is the do all end all of pistols. Love my 1911s, but also have a fondness for my Hi Powers, CZs, and Glocks. I could even live with M&Ps, or XDs.  I've been around and shot enough to appreciate the difference between a $500 1911 and a $1500 one. I can even understand why someone would spend $4-5k for an open class 1911. Good shooters need the best tools they can get. The average shooter would likely be well served with a pistol in the $500 range. From my observations, most problems with 1911s are shooter/owner related. Bad ammo, bad mags, improper cleaning and lubrication, and worst of all, the tinkerer. The ones with no clue that just have to work on their pistol.
I say, buy what you can afford, maintain it properly, and shoot the crap out of it. Don't think for a minute that a low end pistol can compare in any way to a high end one. If you can't appreciate the difference, then spend the difference on ammo and enjoy!
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #133 on: June 02, 2012, 10:19:14 pm »
Right now if i was looking for a 1911 i'd grab a chinese norinco 1911a1 if one was available if it was priced right.(used)  They seem to run between $300 and $600 now if its unmolested even in there stock form there awesome shooting 1911's.
It seems that time has left me behind.  My '05 new auto ordnace army ww2 copy was only $389 and my new '05 springfield armory GI Mil-Spec as it was called back them was only $424.  There both hitting $600 now for a no frills, no bells  and no whistles new 1911a1.
I would think we would see more 1911's in the used gun case with the plastic guns becomming more popular.

Offline Mikey

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #134 on: June 03, 2012, 03:09:53 am »
Crazy:  I'm beginning to wonder if this is not another 'obama effect', in that as we go into another election we are gearing up for another draconian anti-gun push if that idjit gets re-elected.  I still think that some states should free themselves of their large inner city bias by creating city-states out of any city with more than 6 millon in population.  We have some states with less people than that and if those states with larger cities, like nyc, chicago, la, sf, neu oleans and others, making them city states takes the burden of financial support off the backs of the state taxpayers and frees the rest of the state to vote the way they want, not the way the inner city populations slant the vote................ just a thought..

Offline jhm

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #135 on: June 03, 2012, 07:17:15 am »
     Spend as much as you can!!  Afterall its your life you will be protecting, DONT let anyone else tell you what YOUR life is worth.   Jim

Offline Steven Cline

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #136 on: June 03, 2012, 07:57:56 pm »
... The plastic guns do not malfunction. 


I watched a Glock puke all over it's self at the Space City Class earlier this year.
I seen a good friend's Glock malfunction a number of times at matches.
While my 1911 didn't.

In fact I've got years of videos posted to youtube and you can find maybe one malfunction per 10k and I'm approaching 75k through my KSM II.


I've watched an entire squad of 1911s at the Texas Single Stack Shootout go through the match with zero malfunctions.


I'm sorry, dear sir, but you are repeating a falsehood and over stating the dependability of Glocks and under stating the dependability of 1911s.  The facts don't support your assertion.

I had a G 23 that would not feed . it was a factory rebuilt gun . Its ser # was B?? 666 . It was a police trade in and had wear so at one time it worked. The factory repaired it and paid shipping and gave me a couple mags. GOOD SERVICE . NO GREAT SERVICE . but they have a service dept for a reason . They have most likely trained more people to work on their guns than any other manfacturer again for a reason. I have a Colt 1911 that has never had a malfunction and a Browning HP that has not. I don't remember either the Bretta or sig I once had ever barking . I know of one police officer while in a fight hit a bad guy with his Glock and the slide seperated from the frame side ways. Never heard of a 1911 doing so. Then there was the post here where a guy was shot in WW2 and his 1911's frame  stopped the bullet would a plastic gun do that ?


I don't know... maybe I'll shoot a Glock frame with a 9mm some day and see what happens.


I had a G23 which broke the slide stop, twice.  After replacing the slide stop with a tougher metal slide stop normally used in a Crimson Trace it ran fine.


I'm not saying Glocks are junk.  I loved my Glock 23, and my Glock 19, and I've got a tricked out G34 I'm anxiously waiting to start shooting when I get the reloading set up for 9mm.


My point is that the OP's regurgitation of, "1911s aren't dependable and Glocks don't malfunction," is flat wrong.  It's a tired old discussion.
I'm not "special."  I'm capacity challenged.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #137 on: June 04, 2012, 03:35:08 am »
people who are either not willing or can't invest in higher end products often try to compare less costly items to better ones . We have all heard that a VW will get one around as dependable as a RR . The concept ignores class and quality .
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #138 on: June 04, 2012, 12:26:20 pm »
My new Auto-Ordnance 1911a1 '05 and my new Springfield armory 1911a1 '05 will spit out the 45acp rounds just as good as anyother high dollar 1911.  If you have the $$ i say get what you want but a cheaper 1911 can work just as good as an expensive one.  But remember we can have problems with any one of them reguardless how much we spend to purchase it. Again buy what you want and like. I wanted to purchase a few low budget 1911's just to see how they function/cycle.  Now there prices are much higher lately too.  My price range is between $475 to $1,000 for a new 1911 now if i get another one.  But i think my next one is a thompson custom 1911 in stainless.  Mainly because its a different brand.
Forgive me i'm very frugal and i want the most bang for my buck too.  I could spend what i want on any high dollar 1911 but i can own many more at that price. The more toys the more fun thats something to think about.
For the first time i've seen some wilson 1911's in the used gun case a while back.  Thats like seeing a roles-royce used for sale. we hardley see them for sale. I guess the previous owner went plastic maybe?
The gun sales are still up and the shooting ranges are really busy too.  The closer we get to november the worst its going to get.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #139 on: June 05, 2012, 03:07:03 am »
Some understand bang for your buck also relates to selling the gun . Cheap guns seldom sell for more when sold while some higher quality guns go up in value. I stand by my statement that some can't and others won't invest in higher quality. There is nothing wrong with either but it does seem wrong to cut down higher quality to justify ones own choice. Man up and see it for what it is . As example I built an AR out of gun show parts that are supposed to be built to mil spec. I have no illusions that my gun is of the quality of a USGI gun. I would doubt if it was of the quality of a production gun from the high end builders ( if it was it was pure luck). Mine shoots very well most do. I have no idea if the parts will hold up over a long period of time. I doubt anyone would give me higher than the cost of the parts for it. The fact is just because it looks similar to an M4 and shoots really well (now) dosent make it the equal of an M4 in reality its a cheap copy. I  shoot it , I like it , hunt with it and it does what I expect it to do but it ain't no M4 and no amount of wishing and praise on my part will make it one.
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Offline 1911crazy

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Re: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s
« Reply #140 on: June 27, 2012, 12:07:28 pm »
You ask why a 45acp???
I was playing my sons video game and with a 9mm luger it takes 2 or 3 shots to stop people, with the 45acp/1911 one shot one drop.  Funny the game makers got it right with the stopping power of the 1911/45acp.