Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning? - Graybeard Outdoors
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 990
Default Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

Hi All,
Was looking at burn rate charts and was surprised to see Red, Green and Blue Dot powders are all way up at the top near things like Bullseye. Completely the opposite of what I would've expected considering the weight of shot charges, the long barrels etc.

Anyone know why that is?

Just curious what the technical rationale is, because I missed it completely. And having long believed in picking the powder that gives the most velocity for the least pressure, was kind of shocked that shotguns use such inherently fast powders for such normally low pressures compared to rifles and whatnot.

Probably inherited a dislike for fast powders. Was told as a kid that powders like Bullseye erode barrels and rifling at a much accelerated rate?
flmason is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 01:58 AM
Administrator
 
Graybeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Heart of Dixie-Bama
Posts: 23,828
Gun Cabinet
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

You were fed some bad info as a wee lad. Bullseye is great stuff. I've used a lot and never seen any problems it caused.

As to why they are on the fast end of the powder burn rate scale I'd guess pressures have a lot to do with it. Most shotshells operate at a max of around 10,500 LUP. The .410 can reach about 12,000 LUP and uses the slowest of the shotgun powders.

Shotgun and handgun powders usually are very similar in burn rates and in fact many shotgun powders are also the more popular handgun powders such as Unique and the dot powders as well as both 700X and 800X.

Average shotgun velocity is around 1200-1300 fps with lead shot. That's also close to the max of most handguns other than a few of the larger magnums.



Bill aka the Graybeard


I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!
Graybeard is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 08:12 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 88
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

And to add to GB's comments, the .410 shotshell uses typically the slowest of shotgun powders. Nearly all of the factory .410 shells in the world are loaded with H110 or commercial equivalent. You can reference that in the general powder burn rate charts and see that, it too, is on the very fast side for metallic cartridges.

- redleg
redleg155 is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 12:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southwest VA
Posts: 999
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

I have always thought or justified it as, it was to have a small amount of powder to move a very large payload.

HWD
huntswithdogs is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-12-2012, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 990
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard
You were fed some bad info as a wee lad. Bullseye is great stuff. I've used a lot and never seen any problems it caused.

As to why they are on the fast end of the powder burn rate scale I'd guess pressures have a lot to do with it. Most shotshells operate at a max of around 10,500 LUP. The .410 can reach about 12,000 LUP and uses the slowest of the shotgun powders.

Shotgun and handgun powders usually are very similar in burn rates and in fact many shotgun powders are also the more popular handgun powders such as Unique and the dot powders as well as both 700X and 800X.

Average shotgun velocity is around 1200-1300 fps with lead shot. That's also close to the max of most handguns other than a few of the larger magnums.
Well, yes, clearly the burn charts show that only Blue Dot (of the Dot powders) is slower than Unique and all are definitely "fast". IMR 4198 is considered a fast rifle powder and it's slower than 2400, what I'd consider a slow pistol powder.

As to Bullseye (in handguns), even if it's doesn't burn exceptionally hot, if it's got the same peak pressure as a slower powder, it's got to "beat" on the gun more as it's the same pressure in less time. Perhaps the reality is, it's not enough to worry about, but hard to tell since the charts I'm finding don't give any sort of indication of "how fast" one powder is compared to another, just a ranking.

Somehow I find it ironic that the fastest powders, those most likely to blow the gun with an overcharge, are used for the lowest velocity loads. Can't quite figure out why it should be that way. I realize the idea of a quick pop vrs. a long push, but still can't find a reason other than powder cost to even want to use the faster of two powders when selecting a powder?

Seems like it's trading barrel punishment for lower powder costs?
flmason is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Val
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 866
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

In order to reduce my inventory of different powders I use Bluedot for both my 44 mag and 9 mm semi-auto.

Hunting and fishing are not matters of life or death. They are much more important than that.
Val is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 02:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 43
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

I recall reading that shotgun propellants are quick burning in order to let peak pressures drop to a safer level before the thick walls of the chamber area transition to the very thin walls for the rest of the barrel.

Police Officer
US Army Vet
Reloader
Bullet Caster
Dog Lover
nitesite is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-01-2012, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 990
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitesite
I recall reading that shotgun propellants are quick burning in order to let peak pressures drop to a safer level before the thick walls of the chamber area transition to the very thin walls for the rest of the barrel.
I'd actually been wondering about that possiblity of late. I noticed that transition in thickness and was thinking... hmm... maybe it's [what you said]. Contain the bang... taper the walls to go along with the drop in pressure. Shotgun barrels do strike me as rather thin, all things considered.

Interesting that something that moves so much lead uses the least progressive powders. The whole thing strikes me as almost paradoxical. LOL!

flmason is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 08:09 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 147
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

On a related note, why is it that slug loads like corelokt ultra's and SST's can advertise 1900 fps while I can't find a published load for my Savage 220 that comes anywhere near that. Why is it that ammo companies can do things with their ammo that powder companies can't duplicate with their powders?
epanzella is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 1,684
Default Re: Shotgun Powders all Fast Burning?

If I'm not mistaken, Lilgun, which is my favorite magnum pistol powder, began life in 410 shotgun shells.

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you rejoice.
kynardsj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Graybeard Outdoors forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome