When I was orignally taught he art of cannoneering... I was taught that the magazine should not open fully and should be self closing. And the hinge should always be toward the firing line to deflect sparks from the battle rather than scooping them into the magazine. I never had any information on how the magazine lid was limited.
I invented a way of limiting the lid opening by an extension of the lid beyond the hinges it couldn't go beyond verticle... still too much opening... so I added a screw which I adjusted so gravity would close the box lid. Over time, the devise got removed.
I want to ask does anyone know if the original premise (while it sounds safe & good) is correct? If so, how were the original magazine lid openings restricted?
I am in the process of overhauling the magazine... this would be the time to make changes.
Flagman,
I know this.
I have built five full scale limber chests.
The design is to stop the lid from opening past 85 degrees. So if you let it go, it is going to close.
Here are some pictures.
Zulu
Note the black hinge stop just to the right of the brass plate.
That is attached in a position that prevents the lid from opening past 85 degrees.
The hinge stop hits the hinge strap. This is how it is on both hinges.
Flagman,
I can't figure out how to find my old postings here anymore.
But, here is the entire build of that limber chest in over 120 pictures. This is a link to a woodworking discussion forum where I
post pictures of some of my projects.
Be sure to go to page 2.
This is here on GBO somewhere but I can't find my old postings anymore.
Zulu
OK, this was my starting point. It's sized to the piece it serves.
Thanks Guys,
I went away from the chain (seemed to get in my way) but it remains a possibility...
Zulu,
Your beautiful magazines have all the features... but sadly would be over kill for my scale. I note your cover is bigger than the chest on all sides, where mine only overhung the hinge. The strip of bare wood (shown) is where I removed the overhang. I'm going to repro strap hinges over the top.
My original instructions were for much less than 85 degree opening which severely limited access... If I went with 85* or what ever it took to be self closing... I'd be much happier.
I wish there was a way to have it stay open in the shop... but self closing in thefield
OK, this was my starting point. It's sized to the piece it serves.
Thanks Guys,
I went away from the chain (seemed to get in my way) but it remains a possibility...
Zulu,
Your beautiful magazines have all the features... but sadly would be over kill for my scale. I note your cover is bigger than the chest on all sides, where mine only overhung the hinge. The strip of bare wood (shown) is where I removed the overhang. I'm going to repro strap hinges over the top.
My original instructions were for much less than 85 degree opening which severely limited access... If I went with 85* or what ever it took to be self closing... I'd be much happier.
I wish there was a way to have it stay open in the shop... but self closing in thefield
As Zulu shows in pic a side the brass strap attachment point . That metal piece would have been inlayed in to chest so copper when over it . the bottom edge was relieved a little to allow near 90* opening .
I used the AOP drawings to determine that the hinge stop is installed outside the copper. I can't tell you if that is right but I can say that is what the drawings show.
You are correct about the bottom edge being relieved a little. That would be necessary if my hinge had the proper 1/2" to 1/4" taper. I used 3/8" flat bar and it wasn't necessary to relieve the hinge stop.
Zulu
I've been in the shop working on the cover. The switch to repro hinges... really a strap top with a small T lower... looks like a screw with big washer or square block... could be arranged to block the hinge slightly less than 90 degrees... loosening the screw would allow the lid to stay open.
I don't know if this top will suvive my attempts to inlet my St Barbara's medals... I'm finding seasoning cracks on the inside. If it goes South, there's no shortage of pine boards.
I re-read Zulu's build thread... always a great inspiring read. Zulu's picture of the cover stop got me thinking... I will experiment with a stop on my hinges. I have bent my repro T hinges over the edge of the top.
My idea is to use an additional cut down strap hinge to act as a stop... the tab would lay over the hinge pin on the working hinge restricting the travel. In a rough test fit this looks like it will work. It's not real strong & I'm sure it could be forced but on a box his size, more likely the box would tip over first. Pictures to follow.
edit: I had an idea for release for the stop that I wanted to try. To spring load the stop which could be released but it would need 3/4" of travel to clear the top. Ooops! That's a no. The whole stop could be easily removed with a screw driver if needed in the shop.
Checked drawing page 41, front elevation shows lid with copper on and no plate can be seen on hasp strap . Below rear elevation shows lid without copper and both hinge cover are seen with screws installed .
My pages aren't numbered.
The front elevation drawing shows the hasp plate on the outside of the copper.
The front elevation shows the nails for the copper top.
The end elevation shows the nails for the top also.
The rear elevation does not show the nails for the copper top.
I guess I've made five of these things wrong.:tango_face_surprise
Don't feel bad I seen it in the field many times . My AOP book is a first edition 1970,then print by Antique Ordnance Articifers , they are even serial numbered . The book contains all drawings in one, barrels carriages 1&2 ,wheels 1&2 , limber , chest , , horses leathers , cassion and bills of material and all hardware . Will try to post pic of page if you want.
Also another common misread is side rails on limber ,4 ends holes having nothing in them . When in fact they get burred rivets to strengthen area . This also other places like pole .
OK, I know my magazine is not a full museum quality reproduction...
Here's the in process pictures of the "colonial" hinge & stop rework. The first is the hinges and the dummy parts from a couple of strap hinges from the parts bin. On the nearer strap, I've retained part of the hinge beyond the hinge pin to form the stop.
Here are the same parts positioned to show how they'll fit together.
Here's a close up of the stop:
Once the hinges & stop are installed, a single screw will hold the stop to block the hinge. If I need to workinside the box in the shop, I can remove that single screw.
I am presently doweling a bunch of old screw holes before fresh paint & parts installation.
Hello Flagman , I am not able to visualize your design . Does the strap bend go away from the chest ,to get to outer lid . Or is there no over hang ? Sound like it should work , a mockup will tell . On smaller foot lockers and instrument boxes ,I would us a simple leather strap inside .
As I was having trouble with losing posts typed to this site . My re-type answer to Zulu was short .Hence it lack some of my first compliments on the beauty of his work . And also a easy hack for the illusion of tapered straps by taking full thickness and routering a channel to the taper needed , then inlay set , . It works on any strap and add another level of quality that is a lot easier then sounds once set up for side and depth guides .
You are over thinking this. While an earlier incarnation had inlet hinges and an overhang on the hinge side. The overhang was unworkable & was removed. So what I am working with is already reduced to a simple wooden box (as shown earlier) with a lid that sits on top.
This incarnation is going from inside inlet box hinges to external colonial strap hinges. The colonial strap hinges are bent over the edge so the hinge pin aligns with the edge, just as you'd expect. The innovation is the block I'm inventing to prevent the lid from opening just short of 90 degrees so, when released, will self close.
While I'm at it have removed the modern lifting handles which I plan to replace with something more primitive.
PS I've had trouble losing posts and editing around the photos on the "new & improved" site.
Apparently photobucket has changed their TOS. My images are all blocked now. Unless I get a $400 a year account... yeah, right! I've had a Photobucket Account since 2006. Bye! Bye!
All my pictures are saved on my computer / backup drive so they are not lost but all my links are now dead. If you Google the Photobucket/p500 there's more information. I'm not going to pay this annual fee for the few pictures I share. I was only storing 20% of the allotment but all my images were linked to other sites. I am not going to abandon my pictures to Photobucket. So I am deleting all of them... I'm going to be at it a while. I was not very organized when I started... I'll probably open smaller separate accounts elsewhere for various interests.
I have been with www.fototime.com since 2001. I have paid $23.95 a year for a 8Gb fotoshare account since 2001. I have 7456 pictures stored. I do not have have to deal with adds. I log on and go straight to pictures. No nonsense.
Ok . know I see , I pictured the straps going down back . Hence orientation problem . My only recommendation would be a raised lip inset into lid ,half lap style . This is not only important from weatherproofing ,but also flying debris and embers . It could then have simple painted duck canvas top with below joint of lid/box over hang, put on . This would match, pack and mountain gun chests . I single coat paint the cloth under, shape over plastic finish side and pleated ,some temporary staple and double coat . Remove plastic re install using copper tacks through a narrow leather strip , around whole edge .
I have done painted canvas on yacht decks... there's a reason that fiberglas became popular. I need a box together, not a stalled project on my bench. Yes, an inlet lip would be nice... you are over estimating my woodworking ability. There are only so many work arounds for certain disabilities.
I know what you mean . Maybe just a square molding on inside of lid . Either way be sure to have your rounds in additional container plastic or other wise . I'm looking from more stand point of safety . I 'm sure it will come out looking good . Can not wait to see .
Did you have handle design yet . A simple large ring welded to a piece 3-4" flat stock ,bend out angular make nice . They can be add at latter date . Rope handle work also with an interior block hollowed to cover loop and holes they go thought .
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