Author Topic: 30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield  (Read 3216 times)

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Offline goose7856

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« on: August 11, 2004, 01:46:19 pm »
What is the difference between these two 30-06's??

Thanx ahead of time......... :D
Good Hunting and Straight Shooting

Graybeard Outdoors

30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« on: August 11, 2004, 01:46:19 pm »
 

Offline mountainview

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2004, 03:12:20 pm »
Some good info on the www on this topic, just type in 30-06 AI in your search engine. Many standard cartridges have an AI version including the venerable 30-30.

Short answer is different shoulder geometry which enables a purported 100-200 fps velocity increase for the 30-06 AI. If conversion is done right, AI cases can be fire formed by shooting standard 30-06 cartridges out of the AI chambered action.

Offline jackfish

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2004, 03:13:33 pm »
About 75-150 fps, fireforming brass and less case trimming.
You learn something new everyday whether you want to or not.

Offline Mac11700

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2004, 10:37:41 pm »
Goose:

If you can find a reloading store in your area..take a look at the Nosler #5 edition reloading manual...they have some nice loading data in it for the 06 Improved...your gaining 100-175 fps over the regular 06' with the heavier weight bullets and still have the magazine capacity of a regular 30-06... your gaining some ground on the 300 mags..with less powder...less kick too...dies are pretty easy to come-by...but it does involve more time, work and money on reloading to make it  a worth while project,and you'll have the gunsmithing charge to set your barrel back...


Mac
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Offline jvs

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2004, 03:39:56 am »
Face it, the .30-06 Springfield can't be improved by Ackley or anybody else.
 If you want to run with the Wolves, you can't Pee with the Puppies.

Offline Catfish

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2004, 06:13:28 am »
When ever you increase the volume of a case you get an increase of 1/2 of the % increase in volume. Ie. if you increase the volume by 50% you get a 25% increase in velostiy. The 06 has a case capisity of 68.01 grn,s of H2O and the 06 imp has a cast capisity of 68.34 grn`s of H2O.  That is an increase of about 1/2 of 1 % or with a bullet from the 06 going 2,800 fps you could expect to get about 2,807 fps. You should get better case life though.

Offline goose7856

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2004, 09:14:44 am »
Sounds like it is better to just save your money, and spend it on something else!!
Good Hunting and Straight Shooting

Offline Mac11700

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2004, 10:00:16 am »
Goose:

That all depends on how you look at things......to some getting a few hundred FPS out of a rifle they already own...is a draw...or..just having a Wildcat...is what they want...then you'll have some folks ..that just like to tinker with their guns...and others...just wanting something " Exotic" or different...then again..for the serious handloader..he may want to maximize his loadings for a paticular caliber...and enjoy the benifits of extended case life and the other benifits that are associated with this conversion.

Case in point...I owned a restocked 308 Survivor and it had a extreamly long throat on it...since it fell within NEF's specs..they wouldn't do anything about it...I started looking for a simple alternative for the barrel,and this was a conversion I found,that would allow the chamber and throat to be recut,correctly.Do to the pressure constraints the Handi has,I wasn't looking to get an increase in velocity...but mearly redo the chamber and throat,so that I could load out to the lands with certain bullets.It's not as easy to do this on a Handi as it is to do on a bolt action...there they set the barrel back and rechamber to get the correct headspce...on the Handi..there isn't a fesable way of doing that...so you get one shot to do it right...and I found a reputable rifle maker out west that would take the project on. I mulled this over for sometime and deceided not to go ahead with it,...well things lead to different things...I found a perfectly good factory load that shot extreamly well in it...and I even felt good enough with it to enter the postal match with it...and did rather well...so well in fact that my neighbor made me an offer for it that I couldn't refuse and sold it to him........

So you see there are multiple reasons for doing a Ackley Improved conversion...and to some...it isn't a waste of their money to make a favorite rifle shoot,and it's cheaper most places to have it rechambered..than to rebarrel...to others it isn't worth it...because they can't see the benifits outweighing the added cost and labor...it all depends on how you look at things.....your the only one that can truely say if it would be worth it to do on your rifle...just look at all the alternatives and both sides of the argument..both pro and con, before you deceide


Mac
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Offline lilabner

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2004, 03:13:06 pm »
Funny about the Improved. I've read where the velocity gain is minimal and also read that it is considerable. Makes me wonder if they are comparing factory ammo loaded for lever and pump actions and converted Japanese rifles with handloaded ammo for strong bolt guns.The Ackley line seems to have been most sucessful in the .25 caliber and least sucessful in the .30 caliber. I've also read where accuracy was not good, but that would probably depend on how well the rechambering was done. If I had an '06 that shot very well (I do) I would think twice about monkeying with it.

Offline Buffalogun

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2004, 06:47:20 pm »
lilabner,
Differences in the velocity gains is the way it is with "improved" cartridges. The reason is "improving" a cartridge usually includes moving the shoulder forward and straighening the case walls. This increases case volume.
Most modern cartridges already have this done and can't be improved very much. However, cartridges that were designed long ago(30-30,30-40 etc.) usually have long necks and tapered walls, so they have more room for volume increase. I have a 30-30 AI and there is a large increase in velocity over the 30-30 Win.

Buffalogun 8)
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Offline GUNSLINGER13

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2004, 01:11:21 pm »
Hey Frieds,
I have an 06 imp. I find it very easy to surpass the standard 06 in 150 and 165 gr. bullets in velosity. I get 3200 fps with 150 gr with 26 in barrel. I love mine, it has made for me,a light mag. And the rifle is very accurate at 200 yds  8)

Offline Vern Humphrey

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2004, 04:20:41 pm »
Quote from: lilabner
Funny about the Improved. I've read where the velocity gain is minimal and also read that it is considerable. Makes me wonder if they are comparing factory ammo loaded for lever and pump actions and converted Japanese rifles with handloaded ammo for strong bolt guns.The Ackley line seems to have been most sucessful in the .25 caliber and least sucessful in the .30 caliber. I've also read where accuracy was not good, but that would probably depend on how well the rechambering was done. If I had an '06 that shot very well (I do) I would think twice about monkeying with it.


Most wildcats will not do nearly what their creators claim for them.  Many were also developed by men who had no chronographs or any way to measure pressure.

When I got Bigfoot Wallace (my .35 Brown-whelan), there was no loading data -- I started with .35 whelan data and worked up until I saw pressure signs.  Then a friend sent me Ackley's data for the .35 Brown-Whelan.  It took my breath away -- he was using charges MUCH higher than the ones that were flattening primers in my rifle!!

I later found a guy who had a .35 B-W on an M1917 Enfield action.  He told me he loaded his first round using Ackley data and "You could have reloaded THAT case with a shotgun primer!"

Rifle and Handloader Magazines have published well-researched articles and the conclusion is that velocity increases at one-forth the volume increase.   So a 4% increase in case volume (which you will NOT get with an AI .30-06) would yield only a 1% velocity increase -- from 2800 fps to say 2828 fps,  Not enough to bother with.

Offline Lawdog

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30-06 Ackley Improved vs. 30-06 Springfield
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 02:23:52 pm »
goose,

When doing your search remember to also check out the .30 Gibbs.  Just another version of the .30-06 A.I..  Lawdog
 :D
Gary aka Lawdog is now deceased. He passed away on Jan. 12, 2006. RIP Lawdog. We miss you.

 

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