Author Topic: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?  (Read 1655 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lgm270

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1916
Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« on: July 01, 2012, 04:17:23 pm »
Shaw barrels provides Helical Fluting of rifle barrels. 

I'm wondering if there is really any benefit to this or if it is just another way to separate people from their money?

Any thoughts?



Graybeard Outdoors

Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« on: July 01, 2012, 04:17:23 pm »
 

Offline mauser98us

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (43)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1689
  • Gender: Male
  • 10 mm junkie and Whelan wacko
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 06:52:52 pm »
Suposedely it stiffens the barrel and provides better heat disapation. Does it work? Dunno.

Offline gunnut69

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 07:25:24 pm »
It's my understanding that fluting doesn't stiffen a barrel but removes weight from a heavy barrel while leaving the bulk of the stiffness of the barrel intact and also it increases the surface area of the exterior of the barrel to allow it to cool more rapidly.. Is spiral fluting better than straight fluting??? That's a good question. It does provide greater surface area than similar straight fluting. This should reduce weight even more and retain the stiffness of the original tube.. Is it worth the $$??  That's a personal decision..
gunnut69--
The 2nd amendment to the constitution of the United States of America-
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Offline Bugflipper

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 08:46:07 pm »
It looks fancier and saves weight, that's about it imho. A fellow posted on here once a technical explanation that; if you added up the removed area to the remaining circumference of the barrel you would come up with the same measurement as the round barrel, idk one way or the other. Helical would offer more wind resistance though because the pattern is generally deeper than straight flutes and has more surfaces to slow down wind when it contacts it. So it seems it would aid in cooling to some degree. But honestly most folks don't shoot enough rounds in succession to need cooling on a bolt action unless after varmints. On the range you just swap to another firearm if the groups open up. What removing material will do for you is increase barrel harmonics though. And actually allow the barrel to heat up faster as well as cool down faster due to less mass initially. If a fellow was really worried about cooling he could rig up a water cooling device or simply pour water on the barrel or lay damp towels on it if accuracy diminished.
Μολὼν λαβέ

Offline roper

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 717
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 09:24:22 pm »
It's my understanding it a sprial fluting  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix

I know one gunsmith that post on 24hr and does the Helical fluting on bolts and he's not offering that anymore has to do with the pattern Shaw has.

hard to say how it's all going to play out with that pattern and last year on another site they posted that FN was trying to buy it.  This is from Shaw's site

         Shaw’s Patented Helical Fluting (U.S. Patents DES. 426,611 & USG. 324,780B1).  The unique appearance of our Helical Fluting provides the discriminating shooter with a barrel that not only looks great but is up to thirty percent more rigid than a similar barrel with Straight Fluting. Helical fluting provides additional surface area for improved cooling, improved barrel harmonics, and helps to counter act rotational torque, giving the shooter greater shot consistency.

Offline Bugflipper

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 11:30:10 pm »
Does anyone have a link to any tests or data Shaw has done on harmonics? I have seen tests on straight flutes and they are not good. Just looking back to my benchrest days. Fluting was a no-no if you wanted the tightest groups possible. Usually 1.75-2" barrels or better at 16" to keep harmonics down were the front runners. I could see a spiraled barrel having better harmonics than a plain barrel the same diameter as the spiraled barrels narrowest point. Just can't accept it would be better than a  plain barrel that is the same diameter as it's widest point without data. I honestly can't think of one example where removing mass increases rigidity without changing material.
Μολὼν λαβέ

Offline Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12584
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2012, 02:56:12 am »
dont know the answer but they do look cool.
sixgun addict

Offline charles p

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2514
  • Gender: Male
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2012, 04:10:42 am »
Removing metal from a barrel cannot make the remaining barrel stiffer, only weaker.  As for heat dispersion, it must greatly increase the surface area.  A flute that was milled to look like a spline or radiator fins would accomplish this, but four to six flutes don't achieve much.  In fact, if the inverted arc of the flute closely matches the arc of the unfluted portion of barrel, there is a zero gain to the surface area.

Offline drdougrx

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3255
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 06:52:02 am »
I think any fluting is 90% cool and 10% to cool!
 
I have a bunch of rifle with fluting and I buy them because I like the way they look.  I have NEVER seen or experienced any benefit from it.  FWIW I had a gun with a shaw barrel that was fluted and sold it yesterday cause I could not get groups under 2-3 inches at 100.  It took me a couple of years to part with it cause it was soo pretty....stupid is as stupid does.........
If you like, please enjoy some of my hunt pics at:

http://public.fotki.com/DrDougRx

If you leave a comment, please leave your GB screen name so that I can reply back!

Offline Bugflipper

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2257
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 07:38:00 am »
 I had a lazzeroni in the mid 90's that had a helical barrel and bolt in stainless. I didn't have any need for it. It was way too much money and the dies were around $125 back then. I think a normal set was $25. They are barrel burners and way to much for deer. But it was purdy. I played around with it a few years. It wasn't really a shooter but I liked the pattern on the barrel and bolt just for looks. Thankfully they got pretty popular so when I sold it I didn't lose anything. That's a positive for helical flutes. They do look good and sale pretty easy because most folks like the pattern.
Μολὼν λαβέ

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Helical Barrel Fluting? What's the Story?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2012, 11:46:15 pm »
It makes me smile as fluting is nothing new to rifle barrels. Hammerlli were doing this on their target rifles back in the late 1800's and into the 1900's. They offered many styles and profiles it seems. Don't know about helical.


It's just another "new" thing that is not new at all.


What I do remember is that most of those stainless rifles with barrels split like a banana peel ........................................ well it seems lots of those were fluted barrels.


As to how Shaw can claim in a patent application that is stiffens a barrel makes me wonder as a simply stress bend rest would prove or disprove it.

 

go2gbo.com Webutation