Author Topic: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose  (Read 3225 times)

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Offline wareagleguy

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2006, 06:56:23 pm »
The most important thing in shooting that distance (and I think it has been said here) is that you need to know how to shoot the gun.  I spent two years shooting my 7 MM mag getting ready for a hunt in Colorado.  I was able to make a 500 + yard shot.  Bottom line was not that the gun would kill at that distance but rather did I KNOW how to shoot it at that distance.

I shot that gun several times a week at 200, 300, 400, 500 yards.  I knew exactly here to hold over.  So I guess what I am saying is PRACTICE!!!
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2006, 06:56:23 pm »
 

Offline BUSTER51

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2006, 10:01:19 am »
If you can hit a target at 500 yards than you can hit and kill an elk or moose at 500 yards. a Weatherby .338/378 or a .338 lapua will get the job done every time and they won't go far after being hit with a round from these 2 .

Offline Grubbs

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2006, 02:21:55 pm »
If 500 yards is as close as you can get, you need to develop better hunting skills and get closer.  500 yards @ elk is rediculous.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2006, 04:14:08 pm »
Oh, I see!!
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2006, 06:00:50 pm »
If 500 yards is as close as you can get, you need to develop better hunting skills and get closer.  500 yards @ elk is rediculous.

Getting closer is not always possible due to a number of factors, many of them completely outside the control of the hunter.  500 yards may be the only shot opportunity you get.

IMHO, the wise hunter will prepare for the long shot and attempt to get closer.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline TCBrian

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2006, 08:23:02 pm »
I don't think anyone has any business shooting that far at big game in most cases. I here all of the arguements about practice, etc,  butthere are a couple other factors to consider. One is that at that distance a animal can move right as you pull the trigger throwing your shot right where you intended, but he animal has changed position and is now a wounded animal.  A target at the 600 yard range doesn't move right when you shoot.The wounded animal is the other thing to consider. Even with perfect shot placement, a elk can go a long ways even with a 250grain bullet out of one of the hot 338s. By the time you walk 500 yards in much of elk country, it is hard to find the blood trail and even the animal, even when you think you knew exactly where it went. On flat open ground, that is probably fine, but much of these shots are going to be cross canyon shots making the time it takes to get to the animal take a long time.
All that considered, I have my eye on a weatherby accumark in 338/378 just in case I succomb to the temptation to take large game at longer than average ranges. Any of the big 300s or 338s should have enough energy and in a good rifle they are all accurate enough.
My longest shot was at a coues deer last year at 330 yrds with a 30-06. Hitting an elk at 500 would probably be about the same as hitting a tiny coues at that distance. The deer dropped at the shot, but it took me a long time to get to the animal and if it would have moved much at all, recovery would have been very difficult. It was my only shot on the last day of the hunt, so I took it.

Good hunting,
Brian

Offline Slamfire

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2006, 09:09:54 pm »
I don't believe in inherent accuracy. There are cartridges that the loading companies have taken greater pains with, and they tend to be more accurate. However, it is the time and effort spent, not anything inherent about it.  ::)
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline cam69conv

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2006, 11:00:04 pm »
Ok....Im thinking the question was INHERANT ACCURACY....Lets study on this for a second...Inherant means that BY DEFAULT the round is accurate....INCORRECT....No way that ANY round JUST BECAUSE of its caliber can be accurate...Yes the design and the speed of the round may be flatter shooting and such...But then you have to factor in BARREL length...Barrel thickness,,,Bedded or floated....Trigger weight,,,,TYPE of bullet used...GRAIN of bullet used...Grains of powder and powder burn rate...There are TOO MANY variables to concider for anything NEAR inherant...People are using that word WAY too loosely...The KEY is Practice and knowing where that round is going to hit from YOUR gun...Now if you wish to say that a round is inherantly accurate...How come from one rifle chamberd in .300 win mag (example) will hold a group of 1/4 at 100 yards but an IDENTICAL rifle (same make and model and all) will open up to 1" at 100...There goes you INHERANCY theory right out the window.. Get a rifle that will have the Punch needed at that range and practice with it diligently...Simple...As far as the ethics involved, I personally believe in getting as close as I possibly can for 2 reasons...One is Murphys law....The other is that is whats fun about it to me...Its the hunt not the Kill....Now say it was the last day....and there was no other shot that I could get...I was comfy with the winds and the range...My love of the meat...All in favor then yes I would...Any rifle that I carry I know its limitations and my own as well with that weapon. THAT is the main topic of this thread and I think we should kinna get back to it...
You want a divorce if I go hunting today??? Well sorry ta see ya go...Was nice knowin ya..Dont let tha door hit ya where tha good lord split ya :D

Offline Don Dick

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2006, 05:49:16 pm »
The question has an answer, you need both a rifle that is accurate at 500 yards and maintains enough energy to kill the animal cleanly and a hunter who has the ability to put the bullet were it needs to go.  All that is left is to find a elk or moose stupid enough to stand still while your doing it in perfect wind conditions.
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Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2006, 06:40:55 pm »
All that is left is to find a elk or moose stupid enough to stand still while your doing it in perfect wind conditions.
 

And you think this is difficult?  I've spent hours watching elk, deer and antelope at such ranges (500 yards) and a great many good shot opportunities have presented themselves while doing so.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2006, 07:49:07 pm »
Quote

I don't underestand why your getting confused about what I said..... the 30-06 is not the most inherently accurate round.... what other possible explanation would you want me to say?  and.... I never said anything about the 30-06 not being accurate enough for 500 yard shots... where are you getting that from?  What I was trying to get at was that I wanted to find out which rounds are "inherently" accurate... I have said this multiple times now....

You guys are confusing the purpose of this thread, I am trying to research the inherent potiential of multiple calibers to cleanly take out an elk size game at 500 yards....
Quote

Nasem

When you read the information about the .308 being "more inherently accurate" than the 30-06 bear in mind that is based on a comparison of M118 (7.72 NATO Match ammo) and M72 (30-06 Match ammo).  Both were loaded with 4895 powder to essentially the same performance level.  The M118 was pretty much at 100% loading density and the M72 was at 85% loading density.  The M118 was less "powder position sensitive" in gas guns (M14s vs M1s) than was the M72.  Thus the M118 gave less SD and ESs in fps than the M72 which translated to better accuracy at long range (600+ yards) matches.  Hence the 7.62 NATO (i.e. .308 Winchester) was deemed to be more inherently accurate.  However, given equal rifles of sporter or match rifle dimensions and quality bullets, if the '06 is loaded to 100% density it is just as "inherently" accurate as any other cartridge including the .308 Winchester.

I have killed an elk at close to 500 yards. I am well practiced at much farther than that.  I use a sporter weight '06 with a 24" barrel.  I use the Hornady 190 SPBT at 2750 fps which produces MOA accuracy out of that rifle.  I use a range finder. I always try to get as close as I can but where I hunt elk shots can be long (this year it was not an inch over 60 yards).  It is hunting when you get as close as you reasonably can. It becomes shooting when you shoulder the rifle. I know many who, through dumb luck or skill, can get close to deer/elk but they can't shoot.  The result is just as bad as those who think the magnum cartridge will ensure a kill at whatever the range is.  The point being that regardless of the cartridge the hunter/shooter should be well practiced at marksmanship to cleanly kill the game, most "hunters" have little skill at marksmanship.  When one is hunting one needs to concentrate on hunting but when it is time to shoot the hunting is over and one must be able to shoot. With your skill if you can hit a basket ball sized object (I prefer soccor ball size) on demad out to a certain range, however far away that is, then that is your maximum range.  My maximum range on an elk under excellent conditions is 600 yards.  As conditions fall short of "excellent" then my maximum range falls short of 600 yards by an appropriate amount. Then remember as I said; I have killed an elk (2 shots - both through the heart - second shot was not necessary) at almost 500 yards. I have not killed nor shot at an elk farther, guess that's where the "hunting' came in.

Larry Gibson   

Offline lilabner

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2006, 07:30:10 am »
This is a hypothetical answer. If I were trying to select a cartridge for shooting at 500 yards, the first factor I would use would be remaining energy as many cartridges could be selected out using that factor. I would next look at bullet drop as animals tend to move about so even if you range the animal with an accurate rangefinder, it may move further out before it presents a good shot. I suspect that a long for the caliber, pointed boattail  bullet would be best in terms of wind deflection (which  is a major problem at 500 yards) There are a number of exterior ballistics tables on the web which you can play with to get some answers.
My longest shot ever was a last day of the season shot at a wide 4 point mule deer buck.  I was a teenager shooting a 30-06 with a Weaver K4. The buck was moving at a brisk walk. The first shot hit a knee joint on his hind leg. The second took off a foreleg.  He went down in tall brush and I couldn't finish him off until I got to him. The shot measured 440  paces for a 6'4" kid with long legs. It was my one and only shot at over 400 yards and such a messy kill that I decided not to try any more shots like that one.  I have a good rangefinder and a variable scope now but the margin for error is quite small at 500 yards if you want to make a clean kill.

Offline Grubbs

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2006, 01:49:39 pm »
500 yard shots at elk are risky at best even with the best calibers, period.  Figure out how to get closer, or wait until the next day.

Offline longwinters

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2006, 06:05:46 pm »
I too always questioned the whole "inherently accurate" caliber thing.  But I have read a lot of John Barsness and have a lot of respect for his knowledge.  He has talked to John Nosler and Charlie Sisk at length about the subject and they both think there are inherently accurate calibers.  In fact Barsness is going to be writing an article about it. 

I still question it but possibly only because I have not had enough experience with multiple calibers to really know. All I know is that if one of my rifles wont shoot at least MOA I dont keep it.

Long
Life is short......eternity is long.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2006, 08:37:16 pm »
500 yard shots at elk are risky at best even with the best calibers, period.  Figure out how to get closer, or wait until the next day.

The "next day" may be one without elk, it may be next year, or it may never come.  And getting closer, while it sounds nice, isn't always possible.

500 yard shots under the right conditions are less of a risk than many shots at closer range - 100 yards is too far for some people.

Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline nasem

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2006, 10:34:31 am »
I appreciate most of your responses and it makes sense.  Its the shooter who makes accuracy and not the rifle / caliber.

I was actually waiting for Larry's response, I read his little thread about his 495 elk kill with his 30-06 and its actually one of my favorit hunting stories from here GBO.

Offline Larry Gibson

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Re: Most accurate 500 yard Round for Elk & Moose
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2006, 01:00:55 pm »
I appreciate most of your responses and it makes sense.  Its the shooter who makes accuracy and not the rifle / caliber.

I was actually waiting for Larry's response, I read his little thread about his 495 elk kill with his 30-06 and its actually one of my favorit hunting stories from here GBO.

Thank you for the kind words. However, even though I practice long range shooting on ranges and in the field a considerable amount and am prepared to shoot long range when hunting I can finger count on one hand the number of big game animals I have taken past 200 yards in the 47 years I've been hunting.  I do "hunt" and have most often shot big game at less than 100 yards. This years elk was taken at not over 60 yards.  Conversely 4 days later (last day of our hunt) 3 of us (2 of us without rifles as we were just along for the "ride") made a 3 mile run across open country to intercept a herd of 75+ elk that were hard on the move.  We caught them in an open canyon crawling up to them on our hands and knees over the last 200+ yards. We could not get any closer and the tail end of the herd (they were moving away from us) was getting spooky as we had been "busted". The only shot was a 325 yard (range finder) shot across an open draw on a spike standing a little off by himself.  My hunting partner went prone and one shot from his .280 Remington ended the hunt, but not the work. Just goes to show how it went from a 60 yard shot in dense timber in the bottom of Sterling Gulch for mine to a 3 mile chase over wide open spaces with big canyons for a 325 yard shot on his, all in the same unit.

Larry Gibson

 

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