Author Topic: Source for mutton tallow?  (Read 3906 times)

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Offline OldH&R156er

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Source for mutton tallow?
« on: March 22, 2011, 07:58:16 am »
Hello!

I have been looking high and low for mutton tallow.
Been searching the net for months.
Dixie has been out for months as well and I called them this morning and the lady said that they have no idea if or when they might get some in!

Does anyone here have a source for mutton tallow?

Thanks!
Ken.

Graybeard Outdoors

Source for mutton tallow?
« on: March 22, 2011, 07:58:16 am »
 

Offline doc623

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 11:50:54 am »
Ever try venison tallow?

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 12:00:36 pm »
We kinda just went through that Ken...  ;)

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,229215.0.html

Since he answered your post I'm sure what I said about doc623 would go for you also!   ;D

Oh, BTW, not being the generous soul doc623 is, and not being able to find any mutton tallow my own self, I'm keepin what I got!   :P
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Offline Sir Charles deMoutonBlack

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 01:25:35 pm »
Go to a local butcher and scrounge some lamb fat trimmings,  FREE!

Trim the meat, cube it up quite fine and boil it a couple of hours.  Filter it through a ladies wornout nylon sock, also FREE!  Then let it cool until you can pick up a mutton tallow disc off the remaining water.

Total cost, other than fuel for a trip to the butcher, some water and stove heat; NOTHING!

You can eke out a bit more tallow by frying up the cubes.  I keep it separate as it is a touch brown, but it works just as well. 

There must be another thread, as I recall posting this not too long ago. Yes; - A lot comes up if you use the search function and enter "mutton tallow";


Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 01:57:16 pm »
I did use the search feature before I posted this!

I found exactly what you folks had posted here, but that still doesn't answer my post as to a source for already made mutton tallow.

I had already checked with all the butcher shops and slaughter houses within a fifty mile radius of where I live, and all say the same thing, they deal with hogs and beef and may only slaughter maybe one sheep a year, I do live in the middle of hog and dairy/ beef cattle country here, not many mutton eaters here abouts!

doc623.
No I haven't tried venison tallow.
Is it better than beef?

I do have a source for some free beef suit and am picking up about 20 pounds of it tomorrow to render.

I am setup with about 20 pounds of pure bees wax.
but my source for paraffin went dry and I am trying to locate that as well!

Where I live, there is maybe 30,000 people living in the whole county, and most of those people live inside of the town that I live near, big farm community.

Ken.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 02:32:44 pm »
Well excuuuuuuuse me!   :D

Does anyone here have a source for mutton tallow?

I don't.  Haven't heard of anybody that does.

Question answered...  :D
Richard
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Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 03:03:48 pm »
Now, no need to turn sarcastic on me! ;D

I had been making my own 50/50 beeswax/tallow mix for some time, after reading on here a while back I started adding paraffin and it seemed to be way more stable, and I had gotten my mutton tallow from Dixie, but since they ran dry, I gave crisco a try, didn't like that.
Tried lard from the store, it was about like crisco and had too low of a melting point.
TC bore butter by itself "sparingly" since it was soo expensive.

I hadn't rendered tallow before, but I had seen it done back when my grandma used to make it from beef suit, so I resolved to make some of that, but I had read that mutton was better, for one, it is supposed to have a higher melting point than beef.
One of my problems around here is in the summer, it gets around 95 to 100* with 100% humidity, and most stuff I have tried turned runny or really soft, soft enough to drip out of a chamber or in most of my cases, contaminate the powder charge.

One of these days I might have to go out and buy some sheep just so I can have some! :D

Offline doc623

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 08:03:29 am »
OldH&R156er:
No I have not tried beef tallow. I think that venison has a higher melting point but have not tested it.
I do know that venison tallow that I have made in the past is stable and basically odorless andd have sat on the work bench uncovered at room temperature for upwards of 5-6 years.. Venison tallow is basically white in color and once dry and set up is on the stiff side. It has surprised me with the lubricationg/slippery properties when I have applied it to wads - that was via melting. I have also used venison tallow to coat the metalic surfaces, i.e., cylinder, barrel, conicals, and etc.
I have had people use it for chapped hands - can't recommend it for chapped lips.
If and when you render whatever you choose do not use salt in the process.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 08:32:57 am »
Venison tallow is basically white in color and once dry and set up is on the stiff side.

When I opened my tub of mutton tallow I noticed that it and the deer tallow you sent me looked alike, color wise.  I also noticed, when I made up my last batch of BP lube, that the mutton tallow did in fact feel softer then the deer tallow.

I feel a 'speriment coming on!   ;D  Imagonna finally mix up a batch of lube using the tallow you sent me and lube a bunch of pistol wads.  Next range trip I'll fire one of my revolvers greased with the mutton lube and the wads likewise lubricated.  On a subsequent trip I'll try the same thing with the deer lube and see if I can tell any difference!  The question of deer tallow shelf life has already been answered to my satisfaction!   :D
Richard
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Offline doc623

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 10:23:48 am »
Looking foward to the resuts.
You might want to add another asspect at the same time.
Coat some exposed surfaces, i.e., hammer and cylinder and etc with each of the tallows and compare clean up.

Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 03:02:39 pm »
Thanks for that info doc, I'll give some a try next season after I "Hope" get a deer or two.

Atlaw.
I would be interested in hearing of your report too.

Question of tallows, deer/mutton versus beef,
I wonder if the fact that sheep, like deer spend a lot of time in fear and are more active, the adrenalin and exercise may effect its property versus beef where cows mostly just stand there not hardly afraid of anything short of someone blasting a cap right behind them, most of their time they just mossy around leisurely!

I picked the beef suit up today, it was from a cow that was open/grass fed and was pretty white in color, I got way more than the 20 pounds that the guy said he would have, its more than double that!
So, if anyone wants to give some beef tallow a try, I will be rendering it all up this week and putting it up in mason jars.
Matter of fact, I have 5# in the stock pot right now!

Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2011, 05:49:31 am »
I got the first batch of beef tallow rendered and filtered.
I found an old recipe used by the US military back in the 1800's and tried that.
It just called for 2 parts tallow and 1 part beeswax.
After mixing I filled 2 quart jars and I let it stand till this morning to cool, it came out a very nice cream white color and has a consistency of about 1/4 to 1/2% thicker than TC bore butter, has a very smooth and slick texture, it feels like silk between my fingers.
I tested its melting point and as close as I can get to an actual reading is between 120 to 130* with a strong indication that it is closer to the middle of the temp readings, which is much better than what I had got with using Crisco or store bought lard.

Later this week I will test this with some home made felt wads made from hard felt that I just bought through Duro felt products and in both my Pieta 1858 .44 and one of my Euroarms 1858 .44's and see how it acts and performs.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2011, 06:10:06 am »
Cool!   ;D  We got lotsa 'speramentin goin on!  Mutton tallow?  MUTTON TALLOW!?  we don't need no stinkin' mutton tallow!   :D

Didn't the British use pig lard at one time?  I seem to remember that getting them in trouble with their muslim indigenous forces at some point.   :-\  Or was it their enemies told the IF's the Brits lubricated the bullets with pig tallow so they wouldn't "bite the bullet" to load their rifles?  I dunno... can't remember...
Richard
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Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2011, 06:44:42 am »
Cool!   ;D  We got lotsa 'speramentin goin on!  Mutton tallow?  MUTTON TALLOW!?  we don't need no stinkin' mutton tallow!   :D

Didn't the British use pig lard at one time?  I seem to remember that getting them in trouble with their muslim indigenous forces at some point.   :-\  Or was it their enemies told the IF's the Brits lubricated the bullets with pig tallow so they wouldn't "bite the bullet" to load their rifles?  I dunno... can't remember...

From the site I got this recipe from, they stated that in the 1800's, the it was the US army that used lard and peed off the muslims and also beef that ticked off the east indians because of their belief that cows are sacred!

It also had a lot of different recipes dating from the 1700's through the middle 1900's using everything you could imagine, I just picked up one that looked easy and wouldn't require a masters degree in chemistry to put together!  ;D

Offline Gatofeo

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 06:35:08 pm »
The tallow controversy stems from the December 1857 uprising in India, against the occupying British. The U.S. Army had nothing to do with it. There were many causes for the India rebellion, including rumors that the ammunition for the new 1853 Enfield rifle used paper cartridges greased with pork fat, or beef fat.
The British used many native troops, called sepoys.
To load the rifle, soldiers were instructed to bite off the rear of the paper cartridge and pour the powder down the bore.
The muslims, who feel that pigs are unclean, did not want to touch a cartridge that had pig fat on it. Hindus didn't want to touch a cartridge that had beef fat on it, because cattle are sacred to Hindus.
In January 1858,  the British military secretary ordered that all cartridges issued from depots were to be ungreased, the Hindu or Muslim troops could grease them as they wished.
I don't know what type of grease was used on the cartridges. About 10 years ago, I read on the internet that mutton tallow was adopted because it was not offensive to either faith. However, I've only read this once and have never been able to determine what type of grease was used before the rebellion, and after. I suspect no one can state with certainty, and it probably varied from arsenal to arsenal.

I know this much: I've used a wide variety of tallows with black powder through the years and have found mutton tallow to be the best. I've used deer, elk, bear, pig, cow, turkey and chicken. I haven't tried moose, though.
Great-great-great-great Grampa Gatofeo swore by Dodo Bird tallow, which would explain its extinction. He did a lot of shooting, I hear.

I always ordered my mutton tallow from Dixie Gun Works, so now I have no source.
Sheep are raised around me, here in the northwest corner of Utah. I asked a rancher a few years ago where they got butchered, because I was interested in purchasing their fat. He said they're all trucked live to Los Angeles for butchering. He told me that L.A. has many residents of Middle Eastern heritage, who enjoy lamb and mutton.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 11:00:26 am »
AH!  Jawja Tofu!  I was hoping you'd post!   ;D

I know this much: I've used a wide variety of tallows with black powder through the years and have found mutton tallow to be the best. I've used deer, elk, bear, pig, cow, turkey and chicken. I haven't tried moose, though.

Considering that we as a group may never find a source of mutton tallow again, please tell me(us), in your opinion, which of the other tallow you have tried is the best replacement for mutton?  You could probably skip over elk, bear, and turkey as they may not be that available to most of us.  But you did start me thinking about those big hunks of fat I pull from chickens when I'm getting ready to fix 'em up!   :D  Not as much at one time as a cow, but I eat a lot of chicken!   :P

Quote
Great-great-great-great Grampa Gatofeo swore by Dodo Bird tallow, which would explain its extinction. He did a lot of shooting, I hear.

 ::) ;D  I love the asides!   ;D ;D
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Offline Gatofeo

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 01:09:20 pm »
In consistency, common lard is probably closest to mutton tallow. It's readily available in 1 pound bricks at the supermarket. It's often commonly labeled, "Manteca" rather than lard, manteca being the Spanish word for lard.
At least, that's what I've noticed out West (Utah, Idaho and Washington).

So, I'd say that if you can't find mutton tallow, then substitute lard. If you later find mutton tallow, you can still use the lard for cooking (or dabbing behind your ears to attract Washington State University girls).
Lard is best stored in a cool, dry place. It doesn't keep as well as mutton tallow, it seems. However, once mixed with beeswax and paraffin, the resulting lubricant seems to keep a long time if stored in a cool, dry place.
Honey is antibacterial so perhaps beeswax is too, discouraging the growth of microbes that cause spoilage. I don't know.
Anyway, years ago I used to make up a lard/beeswax mix for black powder uses and it worked okay. It's not as lubricating as mutton tallow, I've learned, but the price and availability are hard to beat.

Others use a beeswax/Crisco mix. Whatever you use, don't be stingy with it. Use plenty of lubricant to keep black powder fouling soft so it's easily wiped out with a patch or felt wad, or blown out with each shot.
According to the recent book, "Gunpowder: Alchemy, Bombards and & Pyrotechnics - The History of the Explosive That Changed the World" by Jack Kelly:
When black powder is combusted, 56 percent of its bulk is left behind as solids (fouling).
The remining 44 percent produces gases that drive the projectile down the bore.
So you see, providing plenty of lubricant to keep all that fouling soft is paramount.

Not enough lubricant, and the fouling becomes hard and cakes in the bore, filling the rifling grooves and binding moving parts. Eventually, you'll have to wipe off the fouling as ample lubricant only goes so far, but using plenty of lubricant will prolong the intervals that you don't have to wipe off fouling.
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Offline OldH&R156er

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2011, 07:35:30 pm »
Thanks Gatofeo for the clarification and for sharing your knowledge!

I haven't been able to get out there and test this stuff yet, my sister past away the other day and we had her funeral today, so shooting was not even close to being on my list of things to do.
I will have to wait for a warmer day now, the weather here has turned back into winter again with temps below freezing and even down into the teens at night.
Man I was hoping we had seen the last of the cold and blowin snow!

However, I can report this little tidbit from my last outing a few weeks ago, though I was using TC bore butter.
I was trying out a way to keep the cylinder on my Pietta from binding up so readily, it seems it binds up way faster than my others.
I put a bunch of bore butter on the cylinder pin and inside the hole for the pin in the cylinder, and I mean a lot of grease, and I was able to keep right on loading and shooting without it binding even once, before this I was just putting my gun oil on the pin and swabbing some in the pin hole after each cleaning!
I think the extra amount of the heavier grease made some sort of grease seal to keep the worst of the powder residue out.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 07:55:50 pm »
I use lard.
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Offline doc623

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2011, 06:36:38 am »
Just make sure that the lard does not have salt in it.

Offline crgator

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2011, 08:57:46 am »
http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=719

Nutrient Rich Lamb Tallow
Silky white grass-fed lamb tallow is now available in 2.25 pound portion sizes. Use in any shortening application or add to meat and vegetable dishes for added flavor and health benefits.
Price: $9.95

Unfortunately, a minimum order of $75 is needed.  A group getting together for a purchase or ordering a bunch of meat, perhaps.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2011, 10:01:19 am »
Well there ya go!   :D  I'll bet one 2+ pound tub would last most of us a loooooong time!

Now, if we had a member in MO, and
that member would act as a pickup agent and
a distributor, maybe... just maybe...  ;D
Richard
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Offline crgator

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2011, 10:20:47 am »
Well there ya go!   :D  I'll bet one 2+ pound tub would last most of us a loooooong time!

Now, if we had a member in MO, and
that member would act as a pickup agent and
a distributor, maybe... just maybe...  ;D

After reading this, I was going to call my cousin in MO.  Unfortunately, 4 hours away.  I don't think she'll go.

Offline Charcoal

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 05:16:43 pm »
Mutton tallow is back in stock at DGW.I just recieved my order and its all there.Old Zip Patch Grease is also back in stock,a mutton tallow/beeswax lube in a metal tin. :)

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 08:21:41 pm »
Well thank heaven for that!   :D  'course, I still got plenty, but it's good to know it's available.   ;)

I'm also going to go ahead with my deer vs. mutton tallow 'speriment if and when I can ever get to the range again!   ::)
Richard
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Offline Little Tex

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 08:44:52 pm »
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Queen-Mutton-Tallow-Oz/dp/B003YVW7QM/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_i

I have been using Blue Goo heel softner from Walmart.  emu oil and beeswax.  add a bit more beeswax and some parrafin.   been working great......

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Blue-Goo-Cracked-Heel-Foot-Softener-2-oz/15250013

Offline bear55

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 10:05:17 pm »
Haven't tried this yet but girlfriend gave me a container 7 ounces worth about 8 bucks of pure lanolin, been using it on my hands works great there.  Sticky stuff and smells like sheep have thought about using it for bullet lub, bit expensive but depends on how much you use.  It is made by NOW food company in Bloomingdale, IL.  She picked it up in a health food store as an all natural product.

Offline El Gringo

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2011, 07:41:24 pm »
Mutton tallow is back in stock at DGW.I just recieved my order and its all there.Old Zip Patch Grease is also back in stock,a mutton tallow/beeswax lube in a metal tin. :)

Thanks for the heads up!
I just ordered a tub along with some more bees wax.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2011, 08:51:26 pm »
girlfriend gave me a container 7 ounces worth about 8 bucks of pure lanolin,...

That's not a bad price.  I bought mine from Durofelt, http://www.durofelt.com/image_33.html , a company (person) Georgia Tofu (Gatofeo) found and recommended.  Now I buy all my felt products from them also.  Free shipping!   ;D
Richard
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Offline Rex in OTZ

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Re: Source for mutton tallow?
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2011, 02:16:39 pm »
the way market lamb prices have been somebody must love lamb chops! gotta track down from that angle, lanolin is chemicaly extracted from the wool on processing and is a base product in allot of the chemical trade (mainly cosmetics).
I'd try takeing a Ad in Farm Show or another paper is the Tri-State livestock News,(866)-347-9133(Spearfish SD)

 

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