Author Topic: Finn Classic 512  (Read 4052 times)

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Offline Snowwolfe

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Finn Classic 512
« on: November 12, 2010, 02:09:24 pm »
Anyone own one? Looking for feedback, either good or bad as I would like to order one with a set of 9,3x74R barrels and a set of 12 gauge barrels. Not looking for comments about the Valmet or the Tikka 512.
For some reason these rifles are not very popular as I have only found one other person who owns one.
Thank you

Graybeard Outdoors

Finn Classic 512
« on: November 12, 2010, 02:09:24 pm »
 

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2010, 05:04:06 pm »
Snow

Have you looked at the option of purchasing the Valmet shotgun (there are good deals on GB) then purchasing the 9.3x74r barrel set?

Doug

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2010, 09:42:58 pm »
Not interested. Owned a Valmet in the past and felt like a club. And I do not like the stocks.

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 06:23:09 am »
What are the differences between the Finn Classic and the Valmet?
thanks
Doug

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 10:04:32 am »
Made by a different company. And the Tikka's have a more up to date stock profile (in my opinion) plus they got rid of all of those ugly white lined spacers. In addition they can be ordered with upgraded wood and left handed stocks. Never seen a Valmet with a left hand stock.
Besides, no reason to stay with a discontinued model where it is more difficult to find barrels or parts.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2010, 07:02:49 am »
Made by a different company. And the Tikka's have a more up to date stock profile (in my opinion) plus they got rid of all of those ugly white lined spacers. In addition they can be ordered with upgraded wood and left handed stocks. Never seen a Valmet with a left hand stock.
Besides, no reason to stay with a discontinued model where it is more difficult to find barrels or parts.

  Made by a different company, yes.  Also made of lower quality steel. (in my and many others opinions)

  Valmet stocks work just fine for left handers.  I'm LH and my 412's fit me very good.  As for parts and bbls, are you saying the 512 parts and bbls no longer fit 412's?  What did they change?

  BTW, not all 412 stocks have white line spacers, you should check out more models.

  DM

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 11:16:18 am »
Why do you say they are made with lower quality steel? What steel was used with the Valmets and what steel is used for the Finn Classics? Have you shot the Finn Classic rifles?

Never said the barrels would not interchange. In fact, I have no idea. I am just trying to find accurate FIRST HAND information about the Finn Classic, which seems to be lacking. The Valmet I owned fit me "OK", but am pretty sure a stock designed from the get go with the proper cast for a lefty would fit even better. And the FC can be ordered with a lefty stock.
The appearance of the Finn Classic is much more appealing to me, modern stock design and I like the chrome finish. Own enough expensive doubles, looking for something powerful that will not break the bank and has a durable finish.
Not here to knock the Valmet, my interest is in feedback on the newer Finn Classic

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 04:09:23 pm »
Why do you say they are made with lower quality steel? What steel was used with the Valmets and what steel is used for the Finn Classics? Have you shot the Finn Classic rifles?

Never said the barrels would not interchange. In fact, I have no idea. I am just trying to find accurate FIRST HAND information about the Finn Classic, which seems to be lacking. The Valmet I owned fit me "OK", but am pretty sure a stock designed from the get go with the proper cast for a lefty would fit even better. And the FC can be ordered with a lefty stock.
The appearance of the Finn Classic is much more appealing to me, modern stock design and I like the chrome finish. Own enough expensive doubles, looking for something powerful that will not break the bank and has a durable finish.
Not here to knock the Valmet, my interest is in feedback on the newer Finn Classic

  Your comment about the 412 being obsolete and perhaps lacking in parts sounded to me like you knew something i didn't?  But, now it sounds like that's not the case, as 512 parts and bbls always could be fit to the 412 in the past.  SO, parts and bbls. should be no concern to anyone who buys a used 412...  (they rarely need any parts anyway)

  I use to be a Valmet distributor, and i sold a lot of custom bbls through my shop.  My gunsmith always told me the 412's had the best steel he had ever seen in a firearm, but all that changed when Valmet sold the 412 design, and my over seas friends confirmed exactly that.  They told me the new guns didn't hold up like the old ones.  I consider that to be reliable info, as they and my gunsmith were folks i trusted.

  I go to many of the same forums you go to, and i read the same 412/512 comments.  Some of what i see posted about 412's is absolute BS, and every once in a while i do expose it.  Most times i shake my head and let it pass.  One of the biggest piles came from Mac,  who post a lot, but doesn't always tell the truth.

  I sure don't give a rip what anyone buys, but i do like to read accurate info on Valmets, as i do know something about them.

  BTW, there were some 412's made in chrome too.

  DM

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 04:27:58 pm »
I do realize many mis truths are on the internet and that is where we have to muddle through and try to find accurate information. The more I try to find information about the FC the more frustrated I become because no one seems to own them, but many have opinions of them.
Maybe I should just order one and be done with it and then report on them first hand. Been hoping to find a used one but no luck there either.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 04:42:06 pm »
  That's a good idea...  They sure aren't junk, so you should get decent service out of one.  As for me, i don't think i'd pay the going price for one, considering the prices for used 412's.

  One thing is forsure!  If i was going to use a DR on a hunt, i don't care what kind of hunt i was on, i'd NEVER pick my 412 over my Chapuis.

  DM

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 06:23:37 pm »

  One thing is forsure!  If i was going to use a DR on a hunt, i don't care what kind of hunt i was on, i'd NEVER pick my 412 over my Chapuis.

  DM

Where is your Chapuis now  ;D and how does it's fit compared to the 412.  Oh I have a 412 DR in 9.3x74 that might go up against the Chapuis.  For only one reason the 412 barrels can be regulated.

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 06:25:27 pm »
I do realize many mis truths are on the internet and that is where we have to muddle through and try to find accurate information. The more I try to find information about the FC the more frustrated I become because no one seems to own them, but many have opinions of them.
Maybe I should just order one and be done with it and then report on them first hand. Been hoping to find a used one but no luck there either.

I wounder how much of  difference there is from a handling and fit perspective between the Valmet and Finn Classic?

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 08:45:38 pm »
I do realize many mis truths are on the internet and that is where we have to muddle through and try to find accurate information. The more I try to find information about the FC the more frustrated I become because no one seems to own them, but many have opinions of them.
Maybe I should just order one and be done with it and then report on them first hand. Been hoping to find a used one but no luck there either.

I wounder how much of  difference there is from a handling and fit perspective between the Valmet and Finn Classic?

Good question and I do not the answer. I have only been able to find one person who has owned a Finn Classic and he likes the rifle. Lots of Valmet owners have sent me pm's telling me to avoid the Finn Classic but none of them have owned or shot them. So the comments are just rumors and opinions not based upon facts. I value first hand impressions the most and give little credit to "a friend of my cousins brother in law said they are crap".
If the right Valmet would present itself I would most likely buy it if the price was right. But there are none 9,3's for sale at the moment on Gunbrokers or Gunsinternational. So it looks like I will most likely order a new one.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 04:47:38 pm »

  One thing is forsure!  If i was going to use a DR on a hunt, i don't care what kind of hunt i was on, i'd NEVER pick my 412 over my Chapuis.

  DM

Where is your Chapuis now  ;D and how does it's fit compared to the 412.  Oh I have a 412 DR in 9.3x74 that might go up against the Chapuis.  For only one reason the 412 barrels can be regulated.

1.  Sitting here in my lap.   :D

2.  In this case, ajustable regulation wouldn't be any advantage, as my Chapuis is regulated VERY good and for the load/bullet i choose to use in 9.3x74R.

3. MY daddy can beat up your daddy!  So there!   8)

  DM

Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2010, 08:48:19 pm »
As an owner of a Chapuis UGEX I would have to agree a Valmet, Tikka, or a Finn Classic wouldnt even be a close comparison. The Chapuis is extremely accurate, trimmer receiver making it easier to carry, and lighter as well. It is most likely the best value on the market today for a new double rifle.

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2010, 08:54:04 pm »

  One thing is forsure!  If i was going to use a DR on a hunt, i don't care what kind of hunt i was on, i'd NEVER pick my 412 over my Chapuis.

  DM

Where is your Chapuis now  ;D and how does it's fit compared to the 412.  Oh I have a 412 DR in 9.3x74 that might go up against the Chapuis.  For only one reason the 412 barrels can be regulated.

1.  Sitting here in my lap.   :D

2.  In this case, ajustable regulation wouldn't be any advantage, as my Chapuis is regulated VERY good and for the load/bullet i choose to use in 9.3x74R.

3. MY daddy can beat up your daddy!  So there!   8)

  DM

lol

Glad you got the Chapuis adjusted to your liking.


How are your barrels regulated?

All my DR are regulated with the top barrel on target and the bottom barrel 1.5 inches high at 100 yards.

Offline sae8425

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 12:01:36 am »
Snowwolfe,

I am also looking to purchase a combo rifle, and the 9.3x74R/12ga combination is (most likely) my first preference.

About 6 months ago I started a number of threads on this forum about how to 'best' upgrade from my current combo gun (a Savage 24 in .30-30/12ga) and I received numerous responses to my thoughts/ideas/opinions from dougk, Drilling Man, and many other members. There seemed to be a generally held opinion that the Valmet 412 was head and shoulders above all the other 'affordable' combo rifles that were, or are, commonly (or uncommonly) available in North America.

In the intervening months while I continued to research my purchase options, I've not found one example of a Valmet 412 in 9.3x74R that's come up for sale. So, not wanting to wait any longer, I began to look a bit closer at the FinnClassic 512.

After reading various comments on the internet stating that the FinnClassic 512 was an 'improved' version of the Valmet 412, I contacted Russ Gould of Network Retailing LLC about the FinnClassic that they import and sell.

In response to my question about the differences between the Valmet 412 and the FinnClassic 512, Russ responded:

"I have and use both a 412 and a 512 and the 512 is definitely a better gun cosmetically, esp the wood finish/grain/checkering. The rifle bbls on the new guns are made from Lothar Walther blanks ... the best barrels in the world. Marocchi makes their own shotgun bbls, that is their forte, and they certainly know what they are doing in that regards. The older 412s are ugly, the ejectors break, and they also suffer from blueing salts bleeding out of the monobloc. I suspect what you are reading is a bunch of folks who want to talk up what they own, and if they already own a 412, I very much doubt they also own a 512 so the comparisons are not likely to be fact-based. In any case, the matter is academic as new 412s are unobtainable. Marocchi made these guns for Valmet for a while, and then for Tikka, before they bought the product line."

I don't know enough about either of these rifles to pass judgment on what I'm being told. However, all of what I read and hear sounds perfectly plausible in it's own right to me. I really do wish though, that I knew what was the truth in all this.

I've never held a Valmet 412 in my hands. I will most likely have to purchase a combo rifle sight unseen. Armed with what would seem to be conflicting information/opinions, I'm not really looking forward to choosing between the 412 and 512.

Best regards,

Steve 

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2010, 06:11:08 am »
Snowwolfe,

I am also looking to purchase a combo rifle, and the 9.3x74R/12ga combination is (most likely) my first preference.

About 6 months ago I started a number of threads on this forum about how to 'best' upgrade from my current combo gun (a Savage 24 in .30-30/12ga) and I received numerous responses to my thoughts/ideas/opinions from dougk, Drilling Man, and many other members. There seemed to be a generally held opinion that the Valmet 412 was head and shoulders above all the other 'affordable' combo rifles that were, or are, commonly (or uncommonly) available in North America.

In the intervening months while I continued to research my purchase options, I've not found one example of a Valmet 412 in 9.3x74R that's come up for sale. So, not wanting to wait any longer, I began to look a bit closer at the FinnClassic 512.

After reading various comments on the internet stating that the FinnClassic 512 was an 'improved' version of the Valmet 412, I contacted Russ Gould of Network Retailing LLC about the FinnClassic that they import and sell.

In response to my question about the differences between the Valmet 412 and the FinnClassic 512, Russ responded:

"I have and use both a 412 and a 512 and the 512 is definitely a better gun cosmetically, esp the wood finish/grain/checkering. The rifle bbls on the new guns are made from Lothar Walther blanks ... the best barrels in the world. Marocchi makes their own shotgun bbls, that is their forte, and they certainly know what they are doing in that regards. The older 412s are ugly, the ejectors break, and they also suffer from blueing salts bleeding out of the monobloc. I suspect what you are reading is a bunch of folks who want to talk up what they own, and if they already own a 412, I very much doubt they also own a 512 so the comparisons are not likely to be fact-based. In any case, the matter is academic as new 412s are unobtainable. Marocchi made these guns for Valmet for a while, and then for Tikka, before they bought the product line."

I don't know enough about either of these rifles to pass judgment on what I'm being told. However, all of what I read and hear sounds perfectly plausible in it's own right to me. I really do wish though, that I knew what was the truth in all this.

I've never held a Valmet 412 in my hands. I will most likely have to purchase a combo rifle sight unseen. Armed with what would seem to be conflicting information/opinions, I'm not really looking forward to choosing between the 412 and 512.

Best regards,

Steve 


  I'll take a stab at this one...

  How a gun looks and feels is a personal thing.  There were quite a few different models of 412's made with different "wood" on them.  So Russ could be right or wrong on that, depending on what YOU prefer.  I'd say most folks wouldn't complain if they there were trimmer, but all the metal is the same size on both guns so.....

  I have never even one time had to repair a 412 ejector, and i've used loads that stuck cartridges when i was developing a 9.3x74R loading manual.  I still have the very first 412 that came to my shop in early 1980, and it's been fired thousands of times.  Customers have dry fired it hundreds ? thousands ? of times, and it's never failed in any way shape or form.  I'd not be afraid to put the 74R bbls on it today, and track down a wounded brn bear.

  I was the Valmet distributor for the state of Ak. for many years, and i had VERY few bbls/actions come back do to ANY problem that the customer didn't cause.

  I had a few bbls come back with rust creeping out from under the bbl bands but NEVER from the action.  Not even one!

  I saw a few actions ruined, from customers trying to fit bbls themselves that they bought out of shotgun news.  Most folks think, just because the bbls go on and the action closes, that means the bbls are properly fit!  I've seen this posted on several forums.  It's a good way to trash an action, and then i supose "that" would be Valmets fault?  I've had at least one customer say that it was.

Quote
Marocchi made these guns for Valmet for a while, and then for Tikka, before they bought the product line.

  True:  The "key word" is WHILE.  And it was a very short while!  lol

Quote
I suspect what you are reading is a bunch of folks who want to talk up what they own

  AND, what is Russ doing???  lol lol

  Here's a TRUE story...  Some time ago, i was selling off some Valmet stuff.  Russ contacted me and wanted to buy everything i had.  When i wouldn't give him a VERY low price, he went into his "dealers should give dealers a low price, to help eachother out" mode.  (i was already giving good prices, and GBO members were buying the stuff from me FAST.  Anyway, i again refused, and boy did he ever fly off into a rant!  I won't repeat any of that here.  lol

  SO, i'd say Russ is doing exactly what he accuses everyone else of doing, and i wonder why he wanted all of my 412 "junk" so badly???  lol  Surely he wouldn't want to screw HIS customers with all that fat, ugly, oversized, rust bleeding, ejector breaking  junk!  lol lol

  Would i be afraid to buy a 512 and hunt with it?  no...  Would i trade a new 412 for a new 512? no.

  I'll tell you this, dam few people ever shoot any gun enough to break or wear it out!

  DM

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2010, 07:11:05 am »
I have dealt with Russ and personally have not had any issues.

Looking at the Finn Classic vs Valmet from a purely economic perspective:

Finn Classic 12/9.3x74r gun: $1750


Valmet 412 12ga shotgun: $600-$700 on gunbroker
12/9.3x74r barrel set :  $825
 
Total for 412 with shotgun and 12/9.3x74r barrels: $1525

I hope after seeing this Russ does not increase his price on the 9.3x74r barrel set....  ???


Offline Snowwolfe

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2010, 10:42:41 am »
 Russ Gould is selling the 9,3x74R barrel sets for $1,275 and a complete rifle goes for about $2,250.
If you buy the shotgun then add the 9,3 barrels you are into at least $2,600 for the S grade.
He is asking retail price for the guns, barrel sets and parts but does offer a 3% discount if you do not use a credit card. Never paid retail price for a firearm yet and not about to start. Think I will wait and buy used.

Offline GSluzenski

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2010, 04:17:53 pm »
I was just looking at the posts and noticed yours. I own a Finn Classic 512 in 7x57R and 12 Gauge. Bought it from Cabelas Gun Room used several months ago. Really like it a lot. Having said that, I did need to do a little work on it. Each time I would fire it the forearm would pop off no matter how I adjusted it. Required a little refitting and problem solved. The rifle barrel was extremely accurate right away with Hornady Custom Ammo (I know sounds expensive, but the 7x57R rounds were only approx. $20.00 for a box of 20). I put a Trigicon scope (3-9x40) on it with the factory mount. The mount needed a good dose of loctitie to keep the knurled nut from lossening, but so far so good. The shotgun barrel likes Brenneke Black (2 3/4"). I bought the gun mainly as a Hog/Deer gun and have it regulated at 75 yards where the rifle rounds sits just above the slug. Have about 60 rounds through the rifle and 30 through the shotgun and it's holding zero well. Shot a buck of about 120 lbs last week and bullet performed well. Through and through just behind the front shoulder - ran about 40 yards and had just about bled out. Know that doesn't speak to the 9.3x74, but that's what I have. I have owned an Antonio Zoli combo in 9.3x74R and 12 gauge when I was stationed in Germany and used it on Wild Boar as well as Roe Bucks and the caliber is very effective. Actually similar results on large hogs as a .35 Whelen. I've known several folks who had Valmets and they never had any complaints about them either. Well, I need to get out of here for now, but I wanted to let you know that in my opinion the Finn Classic is an excellent firearm even though I had to do a bit of tinkering to get it the way I wanted it. I think you would be pleased with one!

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2010, 06:51:48 pm »
GSluzenski

Thanks for the first hand insights into the Finn Classic.  Do you know how much the Finn Classic weights?

I just weight my Valmet 412s 9.3x74r DR which with the scope is 9.5 lbs.

Offline GSluzenski

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 11:58:24 am »
Doug,
Just weighed it at exactly 10 lbs with scope and sling. It's 40.5 inches long. Weight is just right when shooting the rfled slug.

Offline dougk

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Re: Finn Classic 512
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 05:36:12 pm »
I will weigh the 412s with the 12/9.3x74r for a true comparison.  On the face there does not appear to be a huge difference in weight between the Finn Classic and Valmet

 

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