Author Topic: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?  (Read 2362 times)

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Offline hunt4570

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Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« on: January 21, 2011, 02:00:23 pm »
  I've decided to get a 7x30 Waters barrel for my contender and will need to form some brass..what is the best procedure in your mind? I went into the archives here and read some on it. A) you can do the 30/30 thing..size-fireform-reload... But I also read somewhere , probably here, you can also size 375 Win cartridges without the fireforming step, is this correct? My book lists trim length for the 7x30 at 2.030, but the max case length on the 375 Win is only 2.020.. So how would that work? Or did I read things wrong somewhere?

  I'm heading to a gunshow next weekend to start getting supplies (and a barrel hopefully) I'm a fan of Lee dies and such, but they only make a FL size die, where as RCBS makes a neck size die for this caliber.. I'm probably looking to get both, what do you think...any 7x30 Waters brass to be had anywhere, I know federal makes ammunition for it, even though I cant find any, wish I could so I could get the right headstamped brass for it so I don't confuse it with my 30/30's.

   Any advice from you guys out there that have been loading the 7x30 for a while? Pitfalls to avoid when sizing, Pet loads maybe also..what powder and bullet do you like..paper and deer will be my targets mostly.
     Thanks

     Scott
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Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 03:41:57 pm »
I always find 2 or 3 boxes of Federal 7x30 Waters at the gun showes I go to.  Good luck.
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 03:54:09 pm »
I just squashed my 30-30 brass in a 7x30 die and loaded it up. They were a little wasp wasted, but they shot fine. As for 375s being a little short, everybody used to make their 270 brass by squeezing down 30-06s which was shorter. Nobody ever had any problems. The short 06 brass ment you didn't have to worry about trimming for a while.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 03:56:10 pm »
I always find 2 or 3 boxes of Federal 7x30 Waters at the gun showes I go to.  Good luck.
  I hope I can find a couple boxes, we'll see..the gun shows in denver are pretty small though..
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Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 03:57:57 pm »
They were a little wasp wasted,

  What does that mean.. Wasp wasted??
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 09:38:41 pm »
Been awhile, I let my 7x30 go several years ago, but as I remember, the 7 has a straighter body than the 30, and I think the neck is shorter on the 7, so after you put a 30-30 through the 7 die it has a funny double bumpy look. I guess wasp wasted was a poor description. If you've got the die and a 30-30 case push it in and see. I made almost all my 7x30 brass from 30-30s because the 7 was rare but the 30-30 were common as dirt. After I sold the 7x30 some of the brass was still in good enough shape that I turned it back into 30-30s.

Offline 41 mag

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 11:41:38 pm »
I think the best description I have found on forming cases was in a Nosler manual.

The down and dirty is, simply start with your die set up a bit high, and turn it down about an 8th turn at a time until you can close the action with a little felt pressure. What this does is put a false shoulder on the case. This holds it in place in the chamber so that it will not move forward when fired. Pick a medium burn rate powder for the bullet you intend to use for forming,( the cheapest you can find preferably), load them up and go have fun.

Some folks recommend seating the bullets out to the lands, which in some cases is fine, but with the Contender frame your not working with the strength of a bolt action rifle. It doesn't take much and your into pressure areas you don't want to be. Others might recommend using cream of wheat as well, but I tried it once and to be quite honest, I wasn't impressed with it or the mess. Your mileage may vary though. 

With the first mentioned process, I have formed over 500 cases and not lost any, and the standard Winchester cases last seemingly forever, and are cheap and usually readily available. They all fully formed on the first go round. I used some bulk 150gr bullets I got from a gunshow for cheap, and some Accurate. Like I said I went the cheap route but FF the loads shot easily MOA at 100yds. 

For my final loads, I went with the 139 - 140gr bullets over the more common 120 gr loads most seem to like. I wanted the most I could get from my loads with regards to down range energy. My initial goal was a 200 yard hunting load which came about with the 140gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, or Hornady 139gr BTSP or SST, Winchester cases, CCI-BR2 primers and RL-15. The final load is pretty boring to shoot at 100yards as it just seemingly enlarges the initial hole. I used it on a decent whitetail doe at 282 yards and it was a bang flop deal.

The key thing I can recommend is contacting the manufacturer of what ever bullet you have in mind, and asking them about the minimum velocity required for at least double caliber expansion. This will give you a REAL idea of your loads and the limitations you need to consider when working them up. Your only going to get around 2250 or so at max for a safe top end velocity from the 14" barrel. Don't get me wrong, the 7x30 is an awesome caliber for handgun hunting, and with todays wide selection of bullets and styles there are a lot of options. IMO the better ones are Berger, Nosler, and Hornady which all have known accuracy, and rapid expanding bullets. This will not only let you workup a very reliable load, but also extend your ranges to your maximum potential. Even if you do not hunt with it over 100yds, it's great fun and practice to shoot out at 2-300yards so you know what it will do should a yote or hog roll out on you.

Hope this helps.

Offline curteric

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2011, 11:56:48 pm »
41 mag has the Idea. Get your headspace set on the shoulder, (his first paragraph). I skip the medium burn powder, cheap bullet thing. I just run a 30-30 case into my dies and load them up with what ever load I want to hunt with and go. They look goofy but work just fine.

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 02:55:58 am »
i bought a cheap lee 7mm mold and use cast bullets to fireform the brass and then neck size it after that.
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Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2011, 06:45:02 am »
So Bilmac...why did you let your 7x30 Waters go? Find something better? What was it? And thanks for the help.
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Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2011, 06:56:37 am »
   41 Mag..thanks great information, thanks .. couple thoughts and questions though.. I too will probably go in the 140 gr weight range on the bullets for the same reasons you did. I'm trying to upgrade the 14" 30/30 I've had for years and try something new, something with a little more juice.
  I've used the 150 gr nosler ballistic tips for a long time in the 30/30 and like them quite well, and intend to probably continue to use them( BT's) in this gun, I need to get a nosler manual..been using the contender one and my hornady, and Lee for a long time...need to add another.
  Why do you (and a lot of others) use the RL-15 powder, looking at my manual it seems it ends up on the low end of the velocity scale compared to most of the other powders listed. 
  Again great info you gave me thanks...

  Scott
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Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 07:01:06 am »
41 mag has the Idea. Get your headspace set on the shoulder, (his first paragraph). I skip the medium burn powder, cheap bullet thing. I just run a 30-30 case into my dies and load them up with what ever load I want to hunt with and go. They look goofy but work just fine.

  Thanks , probably what I'll do to start..but use them on paper for a while. We moved to colorado a couple 3 years ago, and there is nowhere to hunt that doesn't involve a crowd or huge fees, hell I've not even pulled a trigger since we got here.. I need to get out..hence the new toy...
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 03:38:41 pm »
My 7x30 was a contender carbine. I used it a few times and really liked it, but it was mostly the wife's gun. We moved and she wasn't hunting anymore so I sold it and bought something else. Now we've moved again and she's hunting again so I wish I had it back.

Now she's using a sweet little 6mm Mowhawk and last season she made a nice double, two doe antelopes out of the same bunch. Might not have been able to do that with a single shot.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 05:18:06 pm »
My 7x30 was a contender carbine. I used it a few times and really liked it, but it was mostly the wife's gun. We moved and she wasn't hunting anymore so I sold it and bought something else. Now we've moved again and she's hunting again so I wish I had it back.

Now she's using a sweet little 6mm Mowhawk and last season she made a nice double, two doe antelopes out of the same bunch. Might not have been able to do that with a single shot.
What is a Mowhawk? got any pictures..
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Offline Dezynco

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2011, 05:49:45 pm »
I made mine from 38-55 brass that the local shop had on sale.  Needed some triming, but makes some purdy brass!  Just grease it up good and ease it into the die.  A littel at a time until the gun wil just barely close with a good firm slam.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2011, 06:44:45 pm »
Good to know, I'll keep my eyes open for some..
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Offline ShootnStr8

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 04:52:05 pm »
I just lube the 30-30 case, run it into the sizing die and load my normal loads then shpot.  Don't let the funny shoulder fool you, those funny looking loads tend to be more accurate than those made from brass already fireformed.  I even hunt with loads still needing to be fireformed since they are more accurate in my Contender. 

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Offline Dezynco

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2011, 07:14:24 pm »
If you decide to use anything other than 30-30 brass, you won't really have to worry about fire-forming the brass, you'll just have to trim it.

If you use NEW 30-30 brass, you won't really notice any significant accuracy loss by just forming the case and shooting it.  In goes a funny looking thing, out comes a 7-30 Waters.  Just form the brass so that you get a tight "crush fit" on the first firing and you'll be good to go.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2011, 07:45:02 pm »
Thanks, went to a gun show today, there were a total of 2 boxes of factory ammo for the 7x30 there... they are both down on my reloading bench now waiting for my barrel to arive.
  Prices on dies were no better than on line, a bit more even so I'l be ordering some dies ect pretty soon..
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Offline 41 mag

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 03:00:48 pm »
Hunt,

Sorry for the delay on getting back.

To the question on RL-15, well it just sort of worked out that way. I looked at several load manuals and it kept coming up over and over so I tried it. With the 139 - 140gr bullets it will get all the velocity I need and the groups out to 200+ yards are outstanding.

In looking back on several pages of notes I found the seating depth listed at 2.830" for the 140gr BT which in my barrel gives .050" of jump into the lands. I also noted that I had seated them out to within .010" of the lands but pressure signs showed and accuracy wasn't as good.

The initial FF load were using AA-2520, and was noted that I chose it simply due to having it around and nothing else to really use it in. LOL

As previously mentioned by others, most if not all of the FF loads were well within hunting standards of around 1" or so at 100 yards. I have also found this to be true with my two A.I. barrels in .223 and 30-30 as well. In fact for my .223 AI, I have only tried once to work up a load that would hopefully better the standard factory load I have been shooting since I got it. It didn't happen, so I blew it off. I figure once I run out of the supply I have I will worry about it then. Till then I will just keep shooting the 1/2" or so groups out to 200yds with the cheap ol 45gr. Winchester Varmint Pack ammo.

The 30-30 AI is equally accurate and with factory ammo at around $10 per box it's hard to argue with it, when it is only being used for hogs or practice. I do have a  couple of nice loads worked up for it however, one using the 130gr Barnes TTSX and another using the old 150gr Nosler Solid Base. Either of these is pure poison for any deer or hog within 150yds.

Wishing the best with yours. If I might make one other suggestion.

If your looking at hunting with this do yourself a favor and look into one of the after market fore ends for it. I know there are others out there but this is one place I am looking into for mine,
http://www.tonysforendsandgrips.net/index.html

ok two,
Also if you planning on shooting off a backpack while hunting, I highly suggest you practice off of it as well while at the range. Same for a bi-pod as depending on the actual firmness of the pack or rigidity of the bi-pod you will note a change in impacts with your loads.

Good shooting.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2011, 03:59:05 pm »
<<<If your looking at hunting with this do yourself a favor and look into one of the after market fore ends for it. I know there are others out there but this is one place I am looking into for mine,
http://www.tonysforendsandgrips.net/index.html>>>

  Ok, thanks for all the info now a question on the quote above...why an aftermarket forend for hunting purposes? I've been using freefloated TC forends for years...
  And maybe you are reading my mind...I emailed Tony earlier today about a custom grip set...
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Offline fast*eddie

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2011, 04:48:07 pm »
This is similar to a thread from several years ago . I ran some 30-30 brass through a full size die and did a regular load as someone had suggested back then . I took the rounds that I hadn't fire formed hunting by mistake and they were the only ones I had with me . I shot a doe at 55 yards . Never bothered to fire form before hunting after that .
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Offline bilmac

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2011, 02:42:28 pm »
Lumpy brass good luck charm?

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2011, 03:03:17 pm »
Run them thru a 7X30 FL sizer . trim if nessary then load and shoot a low pressure load to fire form . Re trim . Don't over lube out side and either lube inside a case neck every so often or use dry lube on all the inside necks. Cases form better when clean.
What I found is 30-30 cases work but not as well as 7X30 .Its hard to control where all the brass goes and the neck wall thickness might get off from one side to the other unless you have really tight dies. Cabela's has loaded ammo , by the time you fire form the cost might be worth it as you will lose some cases to split necks when you fire form then resize.
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Offline curteric

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2011, 03:18:32 pm »
Tony builds good forends I have two for 12-14 in barrels. The short one I use for hunting and long one for paper punching. I pick them up in person. I purchase them unfinished with pillers and then shape them to my liking. I also have a grip that I did the same thing with.  I really like them.

Offline hunt4570

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Re: Forming 7x30 Waters brass..how?
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2011, 03:39:32 pm »
Thanks, good to know.
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