Author Topic: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?  (Read 3264 times)

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Offline redleg11b

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4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« on: May 19, 2013, 01:14:01 pm »
Just wondering how effective it would be as I've been thinking of trying to trade for something with this barrel length for EDC and hunting sidearm.  I've had a 6", and while I would feel confodent out to 75 yards for deer with it, I also know that the barrel is a little long for comfortable EDC.  Anybody hunt with a 4" wheelgun in .357?  I am thinking I would need to cut my range limit to about 50 yards, but that it will still be effective.
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4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« on: May 19, 2013, 01:14:01 pm »

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 02:27:02 am »
imo the 357 out of a handgun is marginal for pigs and bear. Yes it will kill them but not near as well as the bigger guns. That said if you feel confident with a 6 inch gun a 4 inch gun will work just as well.
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Offline shot1

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 05:39:37 am »
I have killed a few deer with wheel guns in 357 mag with 6" and 7 1/2" barrels and it is my opinion that the 357 mag from a wheel gun is a 50 yard and closer weapon for deer size game. Yes you can hit one much further away but it just does not have enough energy left to suit me. The exception is when I used my 10" Contender pistol. With 180 gr Hornady XTP and 13.5 grs H110 it is quite effective out to 100 yards on deer. I have never shot a wild hog but I have shot s few domestic hogs at slaughter time. A 22LR from a rifle between the eyes and it is all over. If you could get to within spiting distance then I guess a 4" 357 mag through the rigs or between the eyes would work. If you want a carry gun and a hunting gun for deer and hogs get you a Glock in 10mm.

Offline redleg11b

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 05:57:39 am »
The problem with the 10mm Glock is it is a semi.  Can't use it here in PA for hunting.  I'm in a position where I need firearms that can fill multiple roles, though may not be perfect for either.  That is one of the reasons I have a rifle frame with multiple barrels.  It works (with barrel changes) for my hunting needs, though it may not always be the perfect tool for the job.  I'd love a .41, but ammo is not as easy to find and the revolvers bring a slightly higher price tag too.
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Online Lonegun1894

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 06:52:03 am »
Now keep in mind that this is just my experience and that this is NOT a perfect choice, as you said yourself that you realize that it is a compromise.  I have used, and still use, a Ruger Security Six 4" 357 Mag for a lot of hunting.  I practice with it out to over 100 yds, and am confident in being able to place the shot where it needs to go to do the job.  I load mine with the Lee 158gr SWCGC, a fairly close copy of the old Thompson design 358156 that has a good flat meplat on it, and push it with 2400.  Now to be fair, I use the old loads, which slightly exceed the current recommendations which are curently made due to all the snub-nose and small frame guns out there, but limit what a full size revolver can really do, so you may or may not want to follow my lead on this.  Having said that disclaimer, I have taken deer out to 75 yds with this revolver, and hogs (they're basically considered an edible pest/varmint around here due to the property damage they cause) out to a bit over 100 yds, and all were 1 shot kills.  Would a larger caliber have been better?  Absolutely!  But the "little" .357 did fine too.  Now before you take this advice, I also have no qualms about hunting hogs with a .22 revolver or semiauto handgun and have taken quite a few that way.  So I get accused of not using enough gun at times, and just being nuts at others when I go into thick brush after a group of hogs with the same .22s or this .357, usually at night.  Now these hogs range from about 300#s on down, with most being in the 100-200# range.  Our deer around here aren't the biggest, with most of mine having been 100-150#s, but I don't target the "trophys" cause I don't plan on eating antler.  As a friend of mine always kept telling me where handguns were concerned, there's only one degree of dead.  Practice out to further than you ever plan on shooting in the field, then practice some more, and finally, get closer than you need to to place the shot and put it where it belongs and the .357 has enough power to do more than you ever dreamed possible with a "carry gun".  In case you can't tell, I am a fan of the .357, and am therefore somewhat prejudiced.  Now the 6" will buy you a little more sight radius which makes it easier to shoot, but as you said, the 4" is easier to carry.  I use one as my duty weapon so I always have either this .357 or my 1911 on me at all times, and the .45acp works great for the same purposes with proper placement, but that doesn't apply to your situation since you said you aren't allowed to use a semi.  Just use a good accurate gun, load it with good ammo, practice a lot, and you will do fine.  Just make sure you practice enough that you honestly place your shots, and not pull a shot and then blame the gun/caliber when it is you that failed and not the gun.  So it takes a lot of discipline and honesty with yourself to do this.  There will be shots you have to pass up that you could take if you were using a more powerful gun, but as long as you understand and can accept the limitations, it is a great combination for deer/hog sized game.

Offline redleg11b

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 07:29:38 am »
... Just make sure you practice enough that you honestly place your shots, and not pull a shot and then blame the gun/caliber when it is you that failed and not the gun.  So it takes a lot of discipline and honesty with yourself to do this.  There will be shots you have to pass up that you could take if you were using a more powerful gun, but as long as you understand and can accept the limitations, it is a great combination for deer/hog sized game.

I think this is the part most people that blame caliber problems on fall short in.  I don't reload, but there are many good factory loads out there for this purpose too.  Thank you for sharing your experiences.
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Offline Freezer

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 07:29:50 am »
I've carried a number of different revolvers as an os side arm. One I kept is the Ruger Security Six with a 6" barrel. It's a solid revolver in a size that's easy to carry. I do not feel it's an adiquite hunting choice. After trying both single and double action revolvers the one I finially setteled on was the S&W Mountian pistol. It's a 4" 44 mag that's stainless and ported. It carries very well and will fill any nitch I have.

Online Lonegun1894

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 07:59:53 am »
I will add one thing here, and this isn't to convince anyone to use a .357 or not to use one because we all should use what we are comfortable with and can shoot well.  This was one of my first hunting kills with a handgun, but I took a buck that weighed about 140-150 lbs a years ago with this same Security Six 4", and shot him directly in the front of the chest as he was facing me and wouldn't turn.  At 45yds, the 158gr cast bullet entered the notch dead center of his chest, and penetrated almost the full lenght of the animal.  I say almost, because it stopped on his left hip joint.  The buck took three slow steps, and fell over.  I immediately walked over expecting to have to finish him, but he was dead by the time I got to him.  I have done the same thing with hogs except out to longer ranges due to their pest status here.
 
One thing, since you said that you do not load your own (YET, hint, hint).  Make sure you use a quality round that is either a soft point or very good quality HP.  If at all possible, make it at least 140grs, but preferably 158grs or even heavier for the sake of making sure you get adequate penetration.  The only times I have seen a 125gr HP used was by a friend who insisted that they were the best thing since sliced bread based on reading, and not field experience, and he usually didn't get passthroughs like a couple of us who used 158s+ did, so he took a couple deer with his 125s that first year hunting with handguns and then switched to the heavier projectiles, and has had better results since.  I have never seen a hog taken with a 125gr, but prefer the 158s for them too just because of the limited penetration the 125 got in the deer I have seen hit with it.  The hog is built more solidly, and I get pass throughs with 22LRs, but just can't get myself to trust the 125gr HP.  I know, I can't explain why I have more faith in a .22 than a light weight .357 either, but I do just based on those deer kills by that friend. 

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 02:54:56 pm »
It's my opinion that a 4" .357 Magnum is the do everything handgun.  Maybe not absolutely everything, but it can serve many roles.  For hunting, it's done well for me over the years.  I don't use a scope, so all my handgun hunting is no more than 60 yards, and a .357 works well at that distance.  I've reloaded since I first bought a .357 in the 60's, all weights and charges, but my favorite do it all choice in ammo is the Remington 158 grain jhp.  I've never been able to duplicate the accuracy of that particular cartridge.  I wore out a 4" Model 19 with that round.  I sent it back to Smith for a refurbish and wore it out again. 
 
I wish I had another one to wear out. 

Offline mechanic

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 03:10:22 pm »
I own a 4" Dan Wesson.  Within it's range limitations.....(my eyesight)...it is adequate for deer and hogs.  Heck, guys around here hunt hogs with .223, and at less than a 100 yds. I'd argue anyone the .357 is superior.  I shoot a gas checked 165gr. flatnose that's moving pretty good, and shot one old hog in the grizzle and it still penetrated to the vitals.  I would not shoot hollow points at hogs, but that's just me.  On deer they should be fine.
 
A lot of critters have been dispatched over the centuries with round ball that would not come close to .357 ballistics.
 
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Offline Mikey

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 04:51:02 pm »
a 4" 357 with standard factory loadings in the 158 - 180 gn range is quite capable at 50 yds and better.  My favorite loading for my 357 is a 200 gn cast Keith style swc over a Winchester factory 296  powder charge.  The 200 gn slug is heavy for the bore and has much more 'carry' than the 158 grain slugs seem to have, giving significant penetration.  It is a solid slug with a nice square shoulder that leaves a visible round hole on the way in and a visible round hole, somewhat larger, on the way out.  I like to think it is what the 357 was really meant to shoot...imo..

Offline redleg11b

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 05:27:14 pm »
If I can find one and trade my way into it, I'll be getting one.  I have sjfp and jhp, the latter will be for vermin.
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Offline JohnnyMac007

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4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2013, 08:01:27 pm »
My 4 inch 586 no dash works for me.




Online Lonegun1894

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2013, 01:12:00 am »
Good looking hogs.  Nice job.  Now you gone and made me hungry.  Gonna have to try and get one in the next few days cause I'm starting to run low on pork.

Offline JohnnyMac007

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4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2013, 08:26:39 pm »
Good looking hogs.  Nice job.  Now you gone and made me hungry.  Gonna have to try and get one in the next few days cause I'm starting to run low on pork.

Thank you, fine sir.  That hunt took place at the Langley Ranch outside Centerville, TX.

It was one of the most fun hunts I've ever been on.

The Texas hogs are quite tasty...

 

Online Lonegun1894

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2013, 09:17:08 pm »
Sir,
You are hereby promoted to the esteemed title of "that boy just ain't right" for posting more hog pics.  I just checked and I have one ham left in the freezer, so I will pull it out as soon as I finish typing this and defrost it overnight, and then bake it in the morning.  Thank you for the inspiration.  And yes, they are very tasty.
Paul

Offline Ak.Hiker

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2013, 08:13:37 am »
If you don't reload and want to test out a 200 grain WFNGC check out the Double Tap loading. This is the hottest factory 357 load I have ever tested. I would not shoot this one in anything but an all steel revolver. 

Offline shawlerbrook

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2013, 10:22:43 am »
I killed two whitetail does w/ a 4" Ruger GP-100. I hunt with the bow a lot, and just hunted the deer the same as I would with the bow, by limiting my range to 50 yards and only taking a good broadside shot. Two shots w/ 158 gr. JSP and two dead does. I agree it is by no means the optimum weapon, but will work when used within limits.

Offline greywolf444

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2014, 01:02:33 pm »
only one so far with the 4 5/8" blackhawk. Ranch dog 175 worked perfectly. works great in the marlin too. thru and thru. no drama. way easier the carry than the 44. more fun to shoot , too. I don't use the pistol for over  50 yds shots. 357 is perfectly fine for that. Haven't used the 44 since I got the 357  blackhawk and a 1894c. Does all I need. The 158 XTPs should work as well as a good cast bullet.

Offline Mikey

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2014, 05:16:46 am »
greywolf444 - go on down to the reloading forums and follow some of the threads and responses by Veral Smith, the designer and devloper of the LBT bullet and read what he has to say about 200 and 180 gn bullets.  I think you will find it informative. 

Offline rdmallory

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2014, 06:41:33 am »
Check your state laws. Some have a 6" minimum on hand guns for deer.

Doug

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2014, 01:58:22 pm »
It's been shown in ballistic tests time and again, that a 6" .357 achieves LESS velocity than a 4".  The .357 is just one of those cartridges that do better in a four inch.  A hunter's only advantage with a longer barrel in .357M is sight radius.   

Offline Hunter6657

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2014, 06:17:29 pm »
It's been shown in ballistic tests time and again, that a 6" .357 achieves LESS velocity than a 4".  The .357 is just one of those cartridges that do better in a four inch.  A hunter's only advantage with a longer barrel in .357M is sight radius.

I guess that's why a 357 lever action gets 4-500fps more velocity out of an 18.5" barrel vs. a 4" barrel.
1250fps in the 4" vs. 1750fps in the lever action. Now if your talking penetration its possible that a 158gr JHP will achieve less penetration in gelatin than the same slug going slower out of a 4" barrel since it won't mushroom as much.
God created man, Col. Colt made him equal.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 10:20:32 am »
Hunter, sir, your, "I guess that's why . . ." statement is a sarcastic sass I don't like.  You're even off base with your facts.  I was certainly not referring to a rifle.  Look it up.  A 4" .357M revolver has slightly better ballistics than a 6".  That "handgun" caliber is an oddity in that regard. 

Offline FPH

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 03:55:21 pm »
Hunter, sir, your, "I guess that's why . . ." statement is a sarcastic sass I don't like.  You're even off base with your facts.  I was certainly not referring to a rifle.  Look it up.  A 4" .357M revolver has slightly better ballistics than a 6".  That "handgun" caliber is an oddity in that regard.


.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html   When the man is right he's right.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 05:25:13 pm »
WOW...i never would have thought   going from 4 to 6 would make that much difference


did you notice in the 2nd chart
you get  much more velocity  out of 5.5 than you get from 6


http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html


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6" barrel       1278

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5.875" barre      1417

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5.625" barrel     1340

so  mike in va.....is correct sometimes  but not ''time and again''
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline FPH

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2014, 05:36:02 pm »
Thanks for completing the Link.....I didn't realize I had screwed up.

Offline Merle

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2014, 12:24:37 pm »
It's not a reliable test when two different firearms are used. It's common knowledge that velocities can vary considerably even between firearms that are one digit apart off the assembly line. Differences in bore diameter & finish, chambers, barrel/cylinder gap, etc.

A TRUE comparison is to take the same barrel & cut it down an inch at a time. I believe that's what BBTI does.

Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2014, 12:35:31 pm »
It's not a reliable test when two different firearms are used. It's common knowledge that velocities can vary considerably even between firearms that are one digit apart off the assembly line. Differences in bore diameter & finish, chambers, barrel/cylinder gap, etc.

A TRUE comparison is to take the same barrel & cut it down an inch at a time. I believe that's what BBTI does.


yep

when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline 44 Mag Fan

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Re: 4" .357 for deer/hogs?
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2014, 08:43:59 pm »
 :-\
 I have used a Blackhawk 357 to kill both deer and hogs. It seems to me that it is slightly under powdered for anything over 30-40 yards Usually on the days when I take the 357,the Hogs and Deer stayed outside my comfort range for shooting them. :( When I switched to the Ruger 44 mag or 45 Colt with 7.5 inch barrel I have taken both out to 100 yards with one shot kills. For serious social work, the 357 works very well. For hunting, the Vaquero in 45 Colt and a 45-70 works every time :)..
You can never have too many 1911's,single action Ruger's in 45 Colt and 44 Mag or 45-70's..