Author Topic: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?  (Read 1808 times)

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Offline Fat NDN

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Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« on: September 14, 2008, 07:33:01 pm »
I have a Handi rifle in .204 Ruger and I hate it. For a year now I have tried to get better than a 2 inch group, it ain't happening. If I were to get a new barrel and change caliber, for maybe a deer rifle which ones are good ?
 :-\

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Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« on: September 14, 2008, 07:33:01 pm »
 

Offline sooter

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2008, 07:39:40 pm »
If you are gonna reload for it, i would say and would even be willing to wager that the 30-30 is THE most accurate rifle that nef produces. I have seen many, owned many and shot many more that would all shoot under an inch at 100 yards and on a more consistant level than all other calibers that nef or h and r produces.

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Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 07:41:32 pm »
Sorry to hear that your 204 doesn't preform.
They are usually very accurate.
For a deer cartridge I would pick either a 280 or a 270.
They both seem to do very well.
I am sure there are others who have their favorites also, but you seem to hear very little problems with these two.


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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 07:59:36 pm »
I have a Handi rifle in .204 Ruger and I hate it. For a year now I have tried to get better than a 2 inch group, it ain't happening.
 

You're contradicting yourself!!  ???

Tim

Well I finally got some decent groups.  Using both 32 gr Nosler Ballistic tips and 35 gr Bergers with 26 grs of Benchmark.
So far I got it down to 1 inch at 100 yds.

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Offline Fat NDN

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 11:12:02 pm »
I have a Handi rifle in .204 Ruger and I hate it. For a year now I have tried to get better than a 2 inch group, it ain't happening.
 

You're contradicting yourself!!  ???

Tim

Well I finally got some decent groups.  Using both 32 gr Nosler Ballistic tips and 35 gr Bergers with 26 grs of Benchmark.
So far I got it down to 1 inch at 100 yds.
It didn't last.  Went out the next day and the same loads would not shoot any better than about 2 - 2.5".
I have be hand loading for over 15 years and I have never seen anything like it. I load for 30/30, 22-250, .308, 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby Mag.,
270, 270 WSM, 30-06 and 45-70 Govt. So, I'm done with the .204 Ruger, it's beyond my intelligence.

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Offline MOGLEY

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 03:11:15 am »
I reload for my 204 and was getting ready to sell it too. FINALLY after many many recipes I found THE load. 32 grain sierra BK infront of 26.3 grains of reloader 10x. 26.6 is max and I got pierced primer and sure signs of high pressure but backing it off did not hurt the accuracy. I am talking 1/2
" groups. Now I would not part with the gun ever. Patience paid off!. I tried a lot of loads with the hornady 32 gr v-max. Same powder load and length as the sierra BK and it was like 1 1/2" group! Back to the sierras and I am staying. Hard to believe there could be such a difference in a bullet that is seemingly same shape and weight.
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Offline Fat NDN

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 09:38:35 am »
I reload for my 204 and was getting ready to sell it too. FINALLY after many many recipes I found THE load. 32 grain sierra BK infront of 26.3 grains of reloader 10x. 26.6 is max and I got pierced primer and sure signs of high pressure but backing it off did not hurt the accuracy. I am talking 1/2
" groups. Now I would not part with the gun ever. Patience paid off!. I tried a lot of loads with the hornady 32 gr v-max. Same powder load and length as the sierra BK and it was like 1 1/2" group! Back to the sierras and I am staying. Hard to believe there could be such a difference in a bullet that is seemingly same shape and weight.
Sierra 32 gr BK's is what I have been shooting. Started with Varget then moved to Benchmark. I did get a 1" group a few days ago,then went back a day later and I was back to over 2".  I havet tried other bullets, 32gr Vmax, 35 gr bergers, and 34 gr Dogtown, 39 gr Sierrra BK (Tumbled).

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Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 10:09:50 am »
"If I were to get a new barrel and change caliber, for maybe a deer rifle which ones are good ?"

I've never seen a .45-70 that wasn't accurate.  Everyone should have a .45-70.
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Offline tykempster

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 01:59:57 pm »
Everyone should indeed have a 45-70!

Offline PigBoy Crabshaw

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2008, 02:26:02 pm »
I may have to give the 45-70 a try some day. I don't consider a 300 - 400gr slug a deer caliber. It's just a bit on the over-kill side of the hill IMHO for most deer sized game. -g
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Offline NAM70

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2008, 03:54:28 pm »
I also had a Handi in 204. I really liked this gun but getting consistent accuracy out of it was an exercise in frustration. I also tried different loads and bullets-list is to long to get into. 40 grain Hornady's were already sideways 10 feet from the end of the barrel. I did get some nice 3 shot groups but 5 shot groups-very slowly shot-were out of the question. Everytime I went out to shoot the POI was different. It wasn't the scope. The scope was on another rifle previous and is now on my new 204 without any problems. I did all the FAQ things but finally was at wits end. I now have another 204 and its a total different experience. Sure it cost more but its worth it. Dave

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2008, 05:33:37 am »
I may have to give the 45-70 a try some day. I don't consider a 300 - 400gr slug a deer caliber. It's just a bit on the over-kill side of the hill IMHO for most deer sized game. -g

It's not overkill, it's efficient. Well shot, it kills quickly and humanely, and that is your purpose. My .45-70 and .357 Mag are both extremely accurate, and required no tweaking whatsoever.
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22

Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2008, 05:37:40 am »
And they don't ruin any meat.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2008, 06:29:04 am »
Overkill !

I suppose you could say that for ML's and slug shooters as well ::)
Heading for deep water.

Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2008, 07:53:20 am »
I've been hanging around here off and on for a little over a year now, and have come to the conclusion that the most trouble free, most accurate with store bought, always economically cheap ammo, the most recoil friendly, most non problematic Handi, would have to be the plinker/varmint/preditor/deer, adult/youth rifle in 30-30.

I would have to believe taking all the above into careful consideration, it would have to rate first, and I know this may upset some here, but the 45-70 would be second, in my opinion.

My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2008, 09:03:20 am »
I've been hanging around here off and on for a little over a year now, and have come to the conclusion that the most trouble free, most accurate with store bought, always economically cheap ammo, the most recoil friendly, most non problematic Handi, would have to be the plinker/varmint/preditor/deer, adult/youth rifle in 30-30.

I would have to believe taking all the above into careful consideration, it would have to rate first, and I know this may upset some here, but the 45-70 would be second, in my opinion.



I understand where you're coming from, and there is a lot of meat there.  The .30-30 has been around for ever, and has been "America's favorite deer rifle", and has taken probably millions of deer.  No question.
I'll probably catch flak on this, "cause my daddy and grand daddy killed everything in North America with a .30-30".  IMHO it is not more than a 200 yard deer rifle.  It is not a Bear, Moose, Elk or buffalo rifle.  The .45-70 does it all from deer to buffalo.
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 09:09:20 am »
I'll +1 that petemi... The 30/30 is a great round but if I were going after ANY large/dagnerous game in N. America I would take a 45/70.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 09:33:11 am »
"Guns and ballistics have fascinated me since boyhood, and I hope this elemental pleasure will endure, for it has offered me a great deal of pleasure as well as kinship with others that only ballistics and a cozy campfire could possibly create. Such cartridges as the .270 Winchester, .300 H&H Magnum, .30-06, and even some for the big-bore British favorites are as interesting to me as though magic were contained in these combinations of figures....What has been the result? I have reached up to the gun rack and taken down the .30-30 carbine by some process of natural selection, not condoned perhaps by many experts by easily explained by those who spend long periods in the wilderness areas. The .30-30 Winchester carbine is light, short, easily worked through dense forest areas and, when carried over arduous trails, lends itself well to canoe, pack-horse, and dog-team travel. Also it is vested with the crowning glory-the open hammer and the lever action, which symbolize the outdoors as do the pattern of a snowshoe or a canoe."  - Calvin Rutstrum, The New Way of the Wilderness, 1958

He also said the .30-30 was plenty for bear and moose.......he shot a lot of them.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Jimbo47

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 09:42:38 am »
No argument on what is the best for big game, but the question was, about Handi accuracy, and of all the Handi's it has to be the 30-30.

True other rifles can be made to shoot with various hand loads even better than the 30-30, but just plain Handi rifle out of the box it has to be the most trouble free, and using factory ammo the most accurate Handi.

This would be for any shooter, young or old, and some people have problems with recoil even with both rifles shooting exactly the same point of impact, a young shooter, or recoil sensitive person could probably pick up the both the 30-30 and 45-70 and be able to shoot the 30-30 more accurately, thus my point.

Both are great calibers, but when was the last post where someone had problems with accuracy with either caliber?

It may happen, but I sure haven't seen many!
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2008, 11:33:49 am »
I can't tell any difference between the recoil of a Remington 405 grain factory load in my .45-70 & the recoil of a Remington 170/150 grain factory load in my .30-30.

When SAMMI specs are excedded in the .45-70, then recoil becomes an issue.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline PigBoy Crabshaw

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2008, 08:36:58 pm »
I may have to give the 45-70 a try some day. I don't consider a 300 - 400gr slug a deer caliber. It's just a bit on the over-kill side of the hill IMHO for most deer sized game. -g

It's not overkill, it's efficient. Well shot, it kills quickly and humanely, and that is your purpose. My .45-70 and .357 Mag are both extremely accurate, and required no tweaking whatsoever.
I understand and practice the principles you speak of while hunting. Every states hunters saftey class and DFG regs explain this concept. While there is a minimum caliber requirment for each species with the limit being below a 50BMG. A wide caliber range for deer ranging between about 90 to 400 gr.  A 375 H&H or 458 Win Mag would also kill quickly and humanely like the thunder hammer of Thor.  Maybe your talking about doing a Quigly down under 300 yard shot? All I'm trying to say is that in MY opinion it's over kill for deer. The right caliber for the right application and again, in MY opinion called a buffalo classic for a reason! Bear, Moose, and Buffalo.
But again like I said I do not own one and a lot of you guys here are very loading savey. Come to think of it, I could be missing the boat in a big way by not owning a 45/70 and loading for it.   :D  -g


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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2008, 01:55:53 am »
I can't tell any difference between the recoil of a Remington 405 grain factory load in my .45-70 & the recoil of a Remington 170/150 grain factory load in my .30-30.

When SAMMI specs are excedded in the .45-70, then recoil becomes an issue.

I've got a Marlin 336T .30-30 saddle gun with a straight stock, and that sucker always slams the back of my thumb into my cheekbone.  I'd much rather shoot my Handi .45-70.
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2008, 02:04:23 am »
Pigboy, you're comparing a big slow bullet to big fast bullets.....apples to oranges.  The .45-70 was adopted by the government to kill 200 lb. men.  It does 150 - 200 lb deer just fine.

And yes, you are missing a lot of fun....go ahead and try it.
Keep both eyes open and make the first shot good.
The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family:  .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one .243, .30-30,  .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55 BC Carbine, 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22

Offline PigBoy Crabshaw

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2008, 07:09:13 pm »
I'm not wanting a long barreled BC 45-70 so which would you suggest for a shorter version and making it a true Handi? A synthetic black stock or a plain ole pallet wood version? I guess my first Handi might as well be a fun one to shoot and reload for. I'm guessing that the ultra has a longer barrel also.
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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2008, 07:32:13 pm »
The SS 45-70 Ultra has a 24" barrel and a t-hole stock, and it's very accurate too, just like the 45-70 Buffalo Classic and Handi.  ;)

Tim


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Offline Illhunter

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2008, 09:05:43 pm »
that is a pretty rifle there quick.
maybe i need one of those.

Offline PigBoy Crabshaw

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2008, 09:12:05 pm »
Quick, Is the SS Ultra a heavy barrel and was this stock, stock when you purchased it? Thanks. -gary
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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2008, 09:23:49 pm »
It's listed as a heavy barrel on their website, but it's the same diameter as the Handi at ~.800", but 2" longer, the camo lam stock was purchased on ebay last year from a Boyd's dealer, it has a Decelarator pad which is better for my shoulder than the thin Marlin pad that came on the cinnamon t-hole stock. Here's a pic with the Nikon Omega BDC 250 scope.

thanks,

Tim

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Offline NFG

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Re: Handi Accuracy - Which Caliber ?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2008, 10:57:21 am »
Accuracy is more a function of tuning the system rather than the caliber.  Small cals are usually more accurate than large calibers but that isn't cast in stone either.  If you are getting 2" groups with the 204 there is a whole lot more wrong going on than the caliber and getting another barrel may or may not do you any good. 

I have several different calibers all on the NEF platform that didn't shoot right out of the box and one 223 I could never get to shoot that turned into a stub barrel 6mm BR that shoots great.  All it took was reading up on the FAQ's info on how to "accurize the NEF" and after the work, those that I thought were nothing but jack handles became tack drivers...after I worked out the most accurate load.

If you can't do the tuning work yourself I suggest sending it to someone who specializes in break action rifles, you might be pleasantly surprized.

 

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