Read and heed! Board Rules

[Double D]

Here are the rules of our board. Please follow them.

This board is for the making and shooting of blackpowder mortars and cannons that meet ATF's description of an antique or replica of an antique.  You will find Links to ATF's various descriptions in our FAQ's and references posted at the top of the board.

We as moderators will enforce this rule as we understand ATF's definition.  We are not Lawyers.  We are going to go with what we know and understand. This is for your protection as well as ours.  We do not want this forum to become the hunting grounds for rookie ATF Agents trying to make their reputation.  The Veterans aren’t going to bother us as they are to busy looking for real crooks.

That being said this is what we accept on this forum.

1.  Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition

and

2. Manufactured in or before 1898...or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898

or

3. Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

If you wish to provide us with a letter from ATF defining whatever other device you wish to discuss as an antique we will allow the discussion. Provide the letter first.   

We also are not going to have a debate over what the GCA  and NFA says or doesn't say.  There is already to much misinformation on the internet and we are not going to add to it.  Tim and I are not Lawyers and not qualified to give legal advice on the GCA or NFA. Please see your nearest U.S. Attorney for legal advice on the GCA or NFA.

These rules are not subject to debate.   

We did make the rules for the board and we are the experts on those rules and we are the final arbiter of them.

When Tim or I post a message that says this is or is not permitted that is the final decision, not subject to appeal. You might send us an off line message and tell us how you think what ever subject is being discussed fits within our rules, but we aren't interested in arguing.

WE will delete any post citing interpretations of the GCA and NFA so they don't become a source of misinformation. Exception, bona fide press releases or legal opinions from an accredited authority concerning our blackpowder cannons. Pointer post directing the reader to the actual law is allowed. This applies to state and local laws as well. Pointer post okay, interpretation no! 

Discuss cannons that meet the above rules, don't debate the worthiness of the law on our board.

Just as further point, we have always allowed shotgun blank signal guns, carbide cannons, toy cannons, firecracker and other such traditional noise makers as within the spirit of our board. We have also been directed to include Punt guns. They will continue to be allowed. The exotic and unsafe is not welcomed.

Stokes Mortar Click on this link for a explanation of why the Stokes Mortar is not allowed on this board. Stokes Mortar

[Cat Whisperer]

Ditto.


There are places where you may interpret the law differently than us.  That's ok for you to do that.  The COURT's intrepretation may also be different than yours (or ours).

That is ONE of the reasons for us taking what may seem to be a rigid stand on this; it is better to err on the side of caution than find out differently from a judge.

[GGaskill]

A comment from a non-moderator:

If you are at all approaching the edges of the obviously permitted, the best approach is not developing a novel interpretation of the law/rules but writing a letter to the ATF asking for permission to do what you want to do, giving a complete explanation of what you want to do.  They will eventually reply with explanations of the law and examples that elaborate on their position so you can understand what they are allowing and what they won't allow.  The advantage of this process is you end up with a document saying that they have explicitly permitted whatever they have permitted and you can wave a copy of this at any ambitious agent who may try to exercise some "enforcement" upon you.

[Double D]

In order to preserve the character of this forum (of being safe, legal, fun and polite) I am taking some liberties (responsibilities) in editing.

In the past, the character of the forum has been well maintained by those participating.  A need has arisen for some corrections to be taken.

I will in the future take this responsibility in a more timely fashion if it is needed at all, up until now it has not been.
 
DD & I have worked for 2-1/2 years at fostering an open forum with free-flowing discussion and the encouragement of the development of skills and knowledge in the use of cannons and mortars.  A high level of politeness and respect is necessary for that.  To that end you will find where I have ripped out remarks, passages and/or posts.

The following remarks will be left in explanation.

[argumentative/inflammatory remark(s) deleted by CW/DD]
This means: donÂ’t argue - present an alternative view in a more polite fashion; donÂ’t take cheap shots at otherÂ’s character.  This includes use of language.

[off-topic remark deleted by CW/DD]
IÂ’m very tolerant about off topic, until it gets out of the scope of this forum - specifically such firearms/devices that regulated BATF.  References to such devices are necessary and helpful in comparison and explanation of pre-1899 mortars and cannons and are welcome.

[SPELLING correct by CW/DD]
You will NEVER see this used.  YouÂ’re on your own, do your own spell check.

Continued postings of disparaging remarks will result in actions by Graybeard - [take a look at his rules of the board:  ] http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/gbo/gbo-tos.php .

Should you disagree with my editing the proper place for you to respond is by PM.

This is GraybeardÂ’s board.  We are ALL guests (or sponsors) here.  Need I say more?  I will say more.  Thanks to all of you who have made this forum what it is!

Respectfully,
CW

[Double D]

One other word of warning.  Should CW or myself be forced to edit a remark or post and you chose to argue our decision on line or repost the edited remark or post, your entire post will be deleted and we will ask Graybeard to look into banning you from our forum.

We also may delete your remarks and send you a PM and ask you to rephrase and repost them.  That you can do.

We will be more than glad to to discuss our actions in a PM off line, but just because it's private and off line doesn't mean we will accept rudeness directed at us. 

Remember if you wish to contest our moderating, you want to win us over, not insult us.