Recoil in Handi Calibers

[GrampaMike]

Recoil in Handi Calibers

This question seems to be asked a lot here, so I thought just for Kicks (Recoil) I would run it through my software and get a list from the lightest to heaviest kickers.  I know Quick always points to list that have this info, but I thought I would just organize it to just the Handi calibers and the conversion calibers that some have here.  If there are any missed, please remind me and I will add.  So I ran a query against the thousands of loads in the software’s database.  Parameters are 24” barrel, 8 lb rifle (just figured this as average Handi with scope), AVERAGE recoil by cartridge (all bullet weights), AVERAGE energy by cartridge (all bullet weights).  Everything is in foot/pounds.  Some of them surprised me.

22 Hornet      1.1   621
204 Ruger      3.0   1201
357 Magnum   3.4   912
223 Remington   3.6   1272
22-250 Remington   5.5   1623
7.62x39mm   7.3   1496
44 Magnum   7.5   1298
357 Maximum   8.3   1723
30-30 Winchester   8.6   1577
243 Winchester   8.6   1978
45 Colt                       8.7            1537
38-55 Winchester   10.4   1418
25-06 Remington   12.0   2228
7mm-08 Remington   14.5   2460
445 SuperMag   15.4   2236
270 Winchester   15.7   2588
280 Remington   15.8   2504
308 Winchester   16.7   2680
30-06 Springfield   20.6   2968
444 Marlin      25.1   2652
35 Whelen      26.8   3211
338-06      27.1   3471
45-70 Govt I   27.5   2317
500 S&W Magnum   33.4   3403
405 Winchester   33.4   3182
450 Marlin      37.6   3321
45-120 Sharps   37.6   2822
45-70 Govt II   40.8   3417
45-70 Govt III   44.6   3923

[quickdtoo]

Thanks Mike, it's in the FAQs now!!! 

Tim

[EVOC ONE]

Very good, Mike.  Thanks for the info.

 

[LaOtto222]

Wow there are some that surprise me too. I looked at the 44 Mag vs the 45 Colt for instance. I have a Lyman 48th edition Reloading manual. They list loads for both the 44 MAG and 45 Colt in rifles. The 44 in a 20" Winchester lever action and the 45 in a 16" Winchester lever of the same model. There is a 4" difference in barrel length which can account for a little difference in velocities. When looking at 240 grain slugs for comparison (both listed in the manual) they list about 1200 fps max for the 45 Colt and about 1650 or so for the 44 Mag. They even mention that if you want 44 MAG performance levels, sell your 45 and buy a 44 MAG because the pressure levels for a 45 Colt does not match a 44 MAG. On your chart you have the 44 Mag generating 7.5 and the 45 Colt generating 13.6 average recoil. I know this is for an average for all bullet weights and I am just looking at one bullet weight, but there seems to be a big difference when looking at velocities vs recoil. The Colt 45 is only 1.8 recoil (13.6 vs 15.4) behind a 445 super mag. Were you figuring over recommended maximum pressure levels for the 45 Colt or am I missing some thing here? I am not trying to be a wise guy. I know the 45 Colt is a great cartridge and has been loaded past recommended pressure limits a lot, just as the 44 special was to develop the 44 MAG. The reason they lengthened the case was so it would not be shot in older guns. I was just surprised the 45 Colt generated that much more than a 44 Mag. I have a 44 Mag in a Marlin lever (light) and it gives me a pretty good jolt. It seems to kick harder than my 30-30, but the 30-30 is heavier.

[bluebayou]

My experience with the 44 Mag Handi was that the 300 grain bullet is just a big darn bullet.  If I shot lighter 180gr then it was amazingly less recoil.  I know that this chart is for AVERAGE bullet weight.  Just an observation, thanks for compiling those numbers.

[quickdtoo]

A real world velocity for the 45 Colt Carbine 20" barrel is 1950fps+ for the 250gr Speer Gold Dot HP using a max load of Lil'gun, this is a Ruger/TC level load from Hodgdon for the 250gr XTP. Felt recoil is very mild even with the steel butt plate, it was actually quite a break from the .444 and .280Imp I was shooting at the same time.

Tim

[LaOtto222]

I bet it was a break. You made me scramble for the Hodgdon loading book. I see the loads you were using and they are hotter than normal, but safe in a strong action. It is difficult to interpret, but it looks like the 44 Mag loads and the hotter 45 Colt loads are about the same, velocity wise for the same weight bullets. At least in pistol barrels. Why the big difference in recoil energy? I did a little more looking at the heavier bullets. The 45 Colt has an edge here. OK, it just seemed...well surprised me. I do not know how hard the 280 AI kicks in comparison to the 280, but there are only 2.2 energy difference between the 45 Colt and the 280. I just seems to be so high for 45 Colt, just going to have to get used to it.

[quickdtoo]

Part of the difference tween the Colt carbine and the 280 Imp is the drop in the BC stock causes a lot of the recoil to go up, not just back, I had to really hold the barrel down when I was shooting it, not an issue with the extra barrel weight of a 45-70 BC with even hotter loads, coarse I have weight in the 45-70 and 45-120 stocks too!!

I don't know what it is about the 280 Imp over the 280, there was a thread on Improved cartridges at PredatorMasters last year, the 280 Imp got some complaints about recoil, that was before I had shot mine, I have to agree with them, it does have noticeably more recoil than the 280.

Tim

[LaOtto222]

GrandpaMike - Just for kicks could you do your thing for 20 Ga and 12 Ga shotgun slugs in an 8 pound gun? I have not shot the big boys, but I have a 6.5 pound 12 Ga Ithaca with rifle sites. It seems to give a good push and I wondered how it would compare to the rifles. I have been thinking about a 444. I do not know why, there is absolutely nothing I can hunt here with it. I guess that is why I do not have any thing bigger than a 30-30 (did not need that either), other than my 12's. That could change

[GrampaMike]

Just checking in...
LaOtto222, I will check the 45 Colt data (probably this weekend), that is one that surprised me too.  I tried to make it pull just the Ruger, Freedom Arms & TC data only for the 45 Colt only, maybe I screwed up somehow and didn't get everything.  I'll run each cartridge individually and see if I get the same results.  But that can't happen till I get time, so bear with me.  Glad we have more EYES on this.  I see that Quick saw this too, you guys are the best.
Mike

[LaOtto222]

Thanks. I know how it is to get time to do things. Oh my! Loins and tigers and bears...err There is work, got to make a living. The family, the yard or yards shootin' and loadin' time the list goes on.

[GrampaMike]

I reran just the 45 Colt data.  Found a little time, because it was bothering me.  I did get different numbers from the GROUP run.  Still have not figured out how or why.  I posted the revised 45 Colt data in the list above.  It is for the 45 Colt loads for Ruger, Freedom Arms and TC Guns and of like strength.  33,700 PSI Max is the level of this data, within the Handi strength I believe.  I also spot checked a couple of others, they were fine.  Hope the 45 Colt was the only one, will check all when I get more time.
Mike

[LaOtto222]

Thank You Mike, you are a good man.