Posting buy/sell offers on Discussion forums will get you BANNED.

[Graybeard]

Folks damn it I'm sick and tired of having to say this and am not going to again. Tonight alone I've had to delete two attemps to sell firearms on the Discussion Forums ALREADY and am not thru reading YET.

Starting Tomorrow Sep. 29, 2007 I don't care who you are or what your status is on this site:

IF YOU POST A WANT TO BUY OR OFFER TO SELL OR TRADE A FIREARM ON ANY ONE OF MY DISCUSSION FORUMS YOU ARE BANNED FROM THIS SITE FOR LIFE. AM I CLEAR?

If you fail to read this and still get caught TOUGH.

[~Ace~]

If I may ask a question.. I understand Making a post in the wrong forum and attempting to sell something is Stupid, and they should be Banned, but does this also encompase a reply to a thread asking a question.. like Does XXXXX make a XXXX for my XXXXX ?  I need one  And someone replies with YES, they make a XXX that will fit, I have a extra for $17,475.00 if you want it.

Or should they just say PM Sent ?

[Graybeard]

Since I don't know what those XXXXs are it's hard to say. BUT if an offer to sell or request to buy or trade is posted on ANY Discussion forum by any member for a firearm that member is IMMEDIATELY a BANNED EX MEMBER.

I'm not going to explain this policy in more detail as it's really quite clear. YOU ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT POST FIREARMS FOR SALE ON THE DISCUSSION FORUMS.

This drastic action does not apply to improperly listed non firearm items only to firearms. You still are not allowed to buy, sell or trade ANYTHING on Discussion forums other than the few that have been given approval for it or if you are a GBO Sponsor but NO ONE sells, buys or trades FIREARMS on the discussion forums PERIOD. NOBODY. Not even ME.

[jmckinley]

GB I offered a Laminated stock for free on the Handi forum does this violate this policy?  I put a Choate Varmint stock on my 308 and will have other stocks in the future to give away. Jess

[Graybeard]

Probably would have been better on the Handi Classifieds but not a biggie either way. It is not a firearm so no big deal.

I just absolutely and positively cannot and will not allow firearm sales except on Classifieds designated for that purpose. Other violations of policy we can deal with less harshly but that one I have ZERO tolerance for.

[xphunter]

So, is a barrel a firearm?
According to the BATF it is not, but what is your definition?
A post was made where folks were kidding around about a barrel, and someone mentioned if they didn't like it they would take it off your hands.  Clearly, a kidding around with no serious intent to buy or sell, yet he was nailed for breaking the rules.
Is this the intent you meant?

[Graybeard]

No a barrel is not a firearm and wouldn't get anyone kicked out unless they just refused to stop doing it. The post I was referring to was a firearm not a barrel and it was NOT kidding around but a valid offer to sell by the owner. If you don't feel you can follow the rules of this site you really don't have to post here. IF you DON'T follow the rules you WON'T post here.

[Graybeard]

OK Ernie I think I now know what you are referring to and that is NOT the thread that prompted my post here. You're talking about the discussion with Keith about the 6.5 Bower. I WAS NOT.

[xphunter]

Bill,
Thanks for your secondary response-The first scalded:o.  I am always up to responding to a question (since I should have listed the thread to begin with).
Yes, I was speaking about Keith's handling of the 6.5 SB thread and none other.
The comments were plainly meant in fun, in that it would be an extremely cool barrel to own, which is a typical way of giving a guy encouragement.
IMO Keith was the one out of line on this one-It does not foster an atmosphere that I am assuming you want to prevail here.

[Graybeard]

I chose not to get involved in that thread because getting real technically accurate Keith was 100% correct and only enforcing my rules. The offer in that one could have been taken in jest as you seem to or as a valid offer either. I don't know exactly which was intended but to me that one was at most a minor bending of rules but my moderators are on the look out for me in keeping the rules enforced as I want them to as I am serious about my rules. But a violation of that nature regarding a non firearm not ammo item isn't gonna get anyone canned unless they just refuse to pay attention to the rules and continue trying to sell on Discussion forums after repeated warnings. You have to work at it to get in serious trouble with me in that manner.

But my first response that was scalding and intented as such referred to a totally different situation. It was in reference to the selling of firearms and/or ammo on my discussion forums. From the date given forward I will ban on first offense as I have an absolute ZERO tolerance for that violation. There have always been a few things folks can do that will get them canned on first offense, not many mind you but some few. This is now one of those few. I am deadly serious about those and have no sense of humor at all about them.

Still my over all position from day one when the site opened is that this site is not intended to be like all or for that matter any other. It has firm but clear rules that are strictly enforced and I hope fairly enforced. The site isn't intended to be for everyone and I've never had a problem with weeding out any who will not or cannot follow the simple rules of the site. Repeatedly ignoring them or challenging them openly just isn't something I have much tolerance for.

[xphunter]

I chose not to get involved in that thread because getting real technically accurate Keith was 100% correct and only enforcing my rules. The offer in that one could have been taken in jest as you seem to or as a valid offer either. I don't know exactly which was intended but to me that one was at most a minor bending of rules but my moderators are on the look out for me in keeping the rules enforced as I want them to as I am serious about my rules. But a violation of that nature regarding a non firearm not ammo item isn't gonna get anyone canned unless they just refuse to pay attention to the rules and continue trying to sell on Discussion forums after repeated warnings. You have to work at it to get in serious trouble with me in that manner.

Bill,
Don't have a problem with rules.  If literally taken I would agree with you.  But I can't count the times I have made a comment like the one (not to mention others) that was made, and for some reason have yet to own any of them (handgun, optics, barrels, etc.).  It is good that you consider this the "at most a minor bending of rules," IF the literal interpretation was intended.  The Golden Rule if practiced in this case by Keith, by using a little tact would have gotten him a lot more respect in the present and in the future.  Maybe he was just having a bad day.

[Graybeard]

We all have those. I was having one when I made the post that got this thread started. I was in a REAL bad mood at the time. In fairness I think until the argument started about Keith's original comment he was being fairly nice but got kinda stern once the argument started. He merely quoted the rule and that he took it as a violation initially but once argument about the comment began he like I do often got a bit gruff about it.

[xphunter]

Fair enough.
If he, like you is willing to own up to his own stuff, when his nose gets twisted out of whack he will have the respect of others.

[Keith L]

"If you get that 6.5SB and don't like it, send me an email.  I will take it off your hands." is the actual quote.  No matter how often I read that it reads like an offer to buy.  On both the Winchester forum and the Marlin forum I have had to get involved with folks trying to buy and sell which started with lots less of an offer.  My intent was to stop this before it became trouble, and I did ask for that.  I suppose attempting to get behavior to change may not be what some want, but the option was to just move the post to the trash.  I wonder what that would have caused.

Bill, if I second guess this for experienced users what will prevent the newbies from assuming it is ok for them to sell firearms in this manner.  If I need clarification of the rules I am open to it, but I assumed no classifieds means no classifieds.  And I still don't read the initial words as a joke.

I do get ornery when I am trying to do the job I agreed to and get lots of static about it.  I think it sidetracks the forum and makes it harder for people to share information about the subject.  And the pay for this job is on the low side, not enough to make it easy to listen to lots of crap.

[Graybeard]

I agree the wording sounds like an offer to buy and should have been handled via PM not on open forum. Whether one is joking or serious is not your or my job to determine.

What ya mean on that pay, heck I gave you guys a raise and now you're making $00.00 per hour. Heck that's more than me and Matt make. 

[Keith L]

Sorry for blowing up.

[Ladobe]

Well FWIW, I chose to offer my take on this privately with Keith via PM's, tossed in some experiences from back when I moderated this forum and from trying to read Bill's "real" bottom line when something has turned up the heat in him.   I found Keith not only very polite and well written, but also quite knowledgeable and with a desire to just keep everybody having a good experience on the forum.   While I am on the side that feels this was not really a sell/buy attempt (from a little inside knowledge), I have no doubt that Keith's heart was in the right place and he was just trying to do his job as outlined by the boss.   And he was not all that "gruff" in doing so either.   Having been there and done that at a time when GBO (and especially the TC forum) was under some pretty sevier attacks, I can tell you that being an administrator or one of their moderators is not an easy job ever, and at times it can be a very thankless job.   Even so I've seen Bill be very fair and forgiving at times when it probably took all of his personal fortitude to do it.   This instance is all water under the bridge now, but since everybody learned something from it you can't call it a waste of time.   See you all back on the forum.

L.

[xphunter]

L,
Well said.  I responded to Keith on the 6.5 SB thread, but should have acknowledged it here as well.
I respect Keith's response.  I have served and do serve as a moderator at other places, but have not had the heat to date.
Good to hear from a "been there and do that" Ladobe.

[Travis Morgan]

    If you're wondering why this site's such a ghost town, stuff like banning folks for innocuous stuff like this is why. You've also got a coupla mods that act like infants.

    I'll still check in from time to time, but this site will no longer be one of my regulars. Too bad; I really liked it here.

[bubba]

Ghost town?  what parts are you looking at?  It sure seems to be quie busy on here anytime.  Sounds more like sour grapes to me.  I guess the phrase dont let the door hit ya seems appropriate. 

[Keith L]

This is one of the few sites where some decorum exists.  It is family friendly and does not allow the flaming that some seem to thrive on.  I have been enjoying hanging out here for years, and don't loose any sleep when a newcomer shows up, tries to change things to his liking, then leaves in a snit.  See you Travis Morgan.  No need to hurry back.