Hunting with cast bullets

[300grJHP]

Hello all,

I'm loading 240 gr SWC hard cast bullets at 830fps in my 44special for whitetails.  A typical deer around here weighs about 90-130 lbs.  On deer this size, where should I aim with my cast bullets?  Should I aim for the heart or the lungs, or put this slug through the shoulders?  Ranges would be from 5-40 yards.

thanks,
300grJHP

[Redhawk1]

I like to shoot for the shoulder (scapula) myself, it takes out the front legs and the lungs. I also look for the quartering away shot to get the lungs and into the shoulder.  With your hard cast you will be fine with either shot you mentioned.

[Larry Gibson]

With deer that size envision a cantalope size ball low between the front legs against the brisket. Put your bullet throught that "cantalope" regardless of the angle.  On most angles this shot results in a heart shot or takes out the large veins and arteries going to and from the heart.  The shot also most likely will result in one or both front legs being disabled.  The shot being low in the chest cavity will result in blood draining and blowing out.  This is important as more than likely the deer will not drop to the shot from your 44 Special load so tracking wil be necessary.  With one or both legs disabled and a .44 hole through the heart and the thicker lobes of the lungs the deer won't go near as far as it would if just lung shot "behind the shoulder".

Larry Gibson

[MS Hitman]

I've shot them both through and behind the shoulders with .44 Specials.  Either shot will kill, but by breaking down the front of the deer; they are less likely to get any distance from where you shoot them.  Your load should not bloodshot much, if any of the meat around the hole.

[glanceblamm]

With deer that size envision a cantalope size ball low between the front legs against the brisket. Put your bullet throught that "cantalope" regardless of the angle

My thoughts exactly. I do like to aim a bit higher though to allow some margine for error.

[OLDHandgunner]

Take out the front running gear. They don't go far.

[Darrell Davis]

Morn'in cast bullet shooters,

I have read in times past of "eating right up to the hole" on game taken with cast bullets, so it seems clear the damage to usable meat will be very light when compared to expanding bullets.

For that reason, my hold is through the shoulders on a side to side as apposed to a behind the shoulders with my rifles.

On an angling shot, through the boiler room and braking down the running gear on the way out.

I have done little reading and less shooting of 44 special level loads, but on my "mag" with my 310gr LBT slugs I expect a complete pass through even at an angle.

With deer of the size you write of, your "special" will probably give equal proformance.

I recall my son taking a smallish deer with his 44 Blackhawk.  The shot was front on and the slug passed on out the hind end, leaving only the gas check on the way out.

This was with a SWC slug of about 255grs.

I expect the energy to be much heavier with a good load behind the 310gr. slug.

I know with my swinging targets, ment for the 44 mag. I will no longer make it a practice to shoot them with the 310s as it is just overly hard on the targets.

Rather then just a "splat" of lead and the target swinging around to the other side, the 310 leaves a sizable impression of the bullets meplat upon impact. Figure continued use with that load will lead to short target life.

Take it for what it is worth, but you might want to read some of Veral's (Lead Bullet Technology - LBT) writings about the subject of bullet proformance.

He used to have a book, which was a good read. Don't know if it is still available, but he has info here on GB,

According to his information, the SWC profile will not transmit energy to the target as well as a bullet with a larger meplat.  If this is true, a good custom bullet from Veral, even in a bullet of the 250gr range and at "special" velocities and energy levels, might be something worth exploring.

For shots where, for whatever reason, the shoulder is missed or the times when an angled shot requires the passage through lots of soft tissue before reaching the off side shoulder, a bullet which creates the best wound channel is desirable.

I have read in Veral's writtings as well as the writings of others, that the best bullet for delivering energy to the target is the "full wadcutter" style, the fly in the ointment being the lack of bullet stability at longer ranges.

The bullets designed with the wider meplats then those of SWC style, such as those from LBT are designed to give the best of both worlds.

Your ranges appear to be short/reasonable, and according to the posters who's experience far exceeds mine, your "special" seems up to the task as stated.

However, nothing like using the best bullets available for the job, and leaving as much energy inside the target as possible, and that appears to happen with bullets of other then SWC design.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[Catfish]

My favorite shot on deer is a double lung shot. They will not drop on the spot, but they never go far, and I usually see them drop. That is with any gun.

[Mohawk]

My favorite shot on deer is a double lung shot. They will not drop on the spot, but they never go far, and I usually see them drop. That is with any gun.

I agree with Catfish!!! A double lung hit they should be down within 50yds regardless of caliber. This is even true for a .38 Special with Lead Round Nose bullets. When the lungs collapse and deflate nothing can live very long. And them running a short distance works, physiologically, in your favor. 

[Sverre A.]

I've shot them both through and behind the shoulders with different calibers - and I can never be agree with myself - what`s the best.

Behind the shoulders - there will be a lot of blood, and they usually run 30-100 yds.
Through the shoulders - they also can run that distance - but then I struggle a little bit more to find them (if I don`t use my dog  ) - because the bloodtrack is lesser.

[nomosendero]

I believe it is the Garrett site that explains shot placement with hardcast bullets quite well.

[nomosendero]

Here it is:

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/112801.asp

[GradyL41]

first deer I ever took with a handgun was a 220 K at 1200 zipped right on through a couple of hopes and down-so yours will certainly work -- I tend to use the near side leg about 1/3 up or so and shot -- that gets a leg and normally the heart

[Sweetwater]

Just went to the Garret link posted - what a great read!!

Possibly sounding a bit out of touch, but here goes: How does Veral Smith's bullets differ from Garret's or any of the others that have "discovered" what Veral has been preaching all along? Why does not Veral get credit for trying to educate us? Or am I a late-comer in all this.. I only got Veral's book about 12 years ago and had been shooting Keith's almost 20 years then. (Had my head in the sand for awhile)

Keith's were fine where I had used them; steel targets, antelope and deer (whitetail and mulie). One fine buck antelope went down hard with an RCBS 41-210K at 95 yards, from my Blackhawk. He never moved. I don't like tracking (colors are not my forte') and was taught to anchor or don't shoot. I have a bunch of LBT's for my 356W and my 41Mags that I am looking forward to sending downrange.

[Darrell Davis]

YEP, the Garrett site says it all and clearly.

Nothing more need to be said.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[stubshaft]

Not to belabor the point.  I've been a Veral fan since the late 80's.  I have also been a Keith fan since the 60's.  The difference between viewpoints is that Elmer believed that the sharp shoulder of his SWC's is what caused the damage.  Veral on the other hand touts a large meplat as the shoulders on the Keith SWC DO NOT come in contact with the animal unless it stops inside.  All in all, the bigger the hole, the shorter the track.

[Sweetwater]

Exactly - and I don't like to track in brushy stuff. I want them planted where they stand...and I like those big flat points!

Regards,
Sweetwater

[jimenezgraves19]

African Cast Bullet Hunt

Here: http://www.lasc.us/AfricanHunt-CastBullets.htm

[Darrell Davis]

African Cast Bullet Hunt, is a good read!

Thanks.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[Lloyd Smale]

i like shoulder shots. Break the shoulders they go nowhere. Ive seen deer go much farther then 50 yards hit in the lungs. In most cases it wouldnt bother me to have a deer go a couple hundred yards as usually when shot with a cast bullet theres two holes putting down a blood trail but if your hunting where an animal can go onto private property when wounded or dying or where theres other hunters close by that can claim your kill you want them down quick. Ive seen enough aniamals killed with handguns of about every caliber and bullet design to say that i wouldnt want to count on a whitetail piling up within 50 yards hit with a 38 specail through the lungs. Ive hit them in the lungs with a 500 linebaugh and had them go a 100. Now another thing i will address here is the internet knowlege. Keep in mind that Garrett and Veral are trying to sell there products. If i was either would i tell you one of my designs is marginal!! Im not saying that they sell a inferior product. Just the oposite they both sell a fine product but dont take everything on the sites as book. Go out and kill some animals and find out for yourself or at least talk to someone firsthand that has. If the only knowlege i had to trade on a internet forum came from someone elses writings that i didnt know personaly id just keep quiet and learn.

[Ole Man Dan]

Hard Cast:  Thru the Shoulders
Jacketed:   Thru the Rib Cage

[Catshooter45]

I agree with Lloyd.  I try to always keep in mind if there is an agenda in someone's data.

One point I disagree with Veral on is Keith's front band.  Veral says that the edge of the front band won't contact the animal I think that could be true when addressing the soft tissues.  I can see them moving away from the pressure wave.  However, the bones aren't gonna care about that wave.  And Keith made his meplat smaller deliberatly, knowing it was not as good a killer but also knowing the smaller meplat gave better longer range accuracy.


Cat

[doghawg]

 I don't have a lot of first-hand cast bullet knowledge...last year was the second cast kill. A 380 gr. Montana LFN GC at 1200 fps out of a .475 at 50 yards. He went 30 yards. Wouldn't want to eat right up to the bullet hole.........

 

[GradyL41]

I agree with Catshooter --the shoulder of a Keith ought to work on the stiffer stuff in animals-- while I normally cast and shoot LBT style  a lot  in the morning I will be using a .41 magnum with a 410459 Keith ---Lymans version__ that has been HP'd  mv 1400 -- bullet weight 209---and  I will have a good time
thanks for the pictures good shooting -- and MBW does make good stuff

[JASmith]

With deer that size envision a cantalope size ball low between the front legs against the brisket. Put your bullet throught that "cantalope" regardless of the angle.

Larry Gibson

That's the BEST description for visualizing the vital zone I've heard!  Great job!

[Drilling Man]

Hello all,

I'm loading 240 gr SWC hard cast bullets at 830fps in my 44special for whitetails.  A typical deer around here weighs about 90-130 lbs.  On deer this size, where should I aim with my cast bullets?  Should I aim for the heart or the lungs, or put this slug through the shoulders?  Ranges would be from 5-40 yards.

thanks,
300grJHP

  I hope you keep the ranges to where you stated, as with that low of a velocity it's a short range cartridge.

  DM

[SonnyDaze]

Hello all,

I'm loading 240 gr SWC hard cast bullets at 830fps in my 44special for whitetails.   Ranges would be from 5-40 yards.

thanks,
300grJHP

I think that someone should ask what kind of handgun are you using? So I will.
I also love the .44 Special. It was my first gun when I was a kid, and to date is the caliber I purchased last. Of course, that has a tendency to change with lust.
SonnyDaze

[Cheesehead]

Anybody take deer size game with a .429 round nose cast?

Cheese

[Drilling Man]

  I think you will find RN bullets to be a poor bullet design for "game getters".  That's why the SWC design came into being...

  DM

[Cheesehead]

My problem is, My 44 lever rifle only feeds round nose reliably.

Cheese