newbie to cap and ball--lookin for advice

[homebuilt]

hey all, i'm new to cap and ball not to mention black powder all together. i'm lookin at buying a "traditions" spiller and burr .36 cal. are these decent guns? what else am i going to need to get to start shooting this thing? which powder would be ideal to use, how much? also which caps do they require? i know my shotguns and centerfire rifles(reload for both) but am not familiar with these ol'fashioned things also is there any other manufactors of these that are of higher quality? thanks guy's

[FourBee]

Dixie Gun Works sells the Pietta Spiller & Burr Revolver.   Not sure if Traditions' is a Pietta.
You'll need of course black powder, preferrably 15 grains of GOEX FFFg (also called 3Fg), or equivalent substitute (read the ratio difference on the substitute canister). 

Also you'll need lead round balls, preferrably .375" diameter.  I like to use a Wad (a  .36 caliber lubed felt wad) between the powder charge and the ball.    A #11 Percussion Cap is recommended, but I've found that the Remington #10 (longer cup) fits more snug, and won't fall off prior to firing.  

A powder flask to dispense the powder into the chambers.  Something lilke a Colt, with removable spout (so you can easily change grain amounts).   A Powder Funnel that threads into the Flask for ease of refilling the flask.  A (Snail Capper) to dispense the percussion caps onto the nipples.   It will save your thumbs from getting sore.   That should get you started.


p.s. 

are these decent guns?

   These guns are built on a Brass Frame.    They are okay as long as you don't shoot heavy loads, which over time will wallow out the frame at pressure points.

[NickSS]

Fore Bee is right on the minimum you will need to fire a spiller and burr revolver.  Actually it is the same for any Cap and Ball revolver except for ball diameter and powder charge.  I have several piattas (Remington army and navy and colt army models).  I mostly use CCI or RWS caps as those are the brands I can get where I live.  The number 11 caps fit the issue nipples loosely and number 10 caps are real tight fitting.  I use both but always pinch the number 11s a bit before inserting them.

[mechanic]

If you don't use a wad between the powder and ball, you need to seal the end of the revolver chamber with grease to prevent chain fire.  I never use the grease if I use the wad.  Lee also makes a conical "REAL" bullet that seals itself and requires no grease.

Actually I've never had nor seen a chain fire, but I'd hate to be holding onto the pistol if one happened.

These things are fun!  And addictive!  Buy some more and have fun.

Ben

[blhof]

By grease, he means an animal or plant based lube like crisco or the commercial bore butter or similiar.  Don't use petrolium based cleaners or lubes in B/p; it cakes up the residue and is a real pain to clean up.

[bedbugbilly]

Whether you are "new" or "old" to the hobby - play it safe.  If you use just powder and ball with no felt wad, SEAL THE CHAMBERS with Crisco or some other suitable grease (there are several recipes on this sight for some excellent concoctions to use) and do everything you can to prevent a "chain fire". 
"Chain Fires" are often talked about, many have never seen one . . .  I have and it is a scary thing.  Like walking across a street on a green light . . . "it can be dangerous to your health".  I also have seen several "cook offs" while shooting NSSA.  In timed shooting events with Civil War muskets, the barrels become very hot and on several occassions I've seen the powder ignite as it was being dumped down the barrel during the reloading process.  If the powder discharge was delayed enough, it can and has occurred as the minie ball was being introduced into the barrel or while it is being rammed to the breech . . . a good way to loose some fingers or a hand, and if the muzzle was not pointed away from the face . . . your eyesight or worse (even if wearing eye protection).  Disregard the tales about "how grandpa used to do it" and always play in a safe manner - guns are not toys - they are to be treated as if they are loaded at all times and ALWAYS make sure it is not pointed at you or somebody else.  There are too many sad tales about how an "unloaded gun" went off while it was being cleaned.  Just this past winter, a child was killed by a cap and ball revolver in a neighboring community (in Michigan) while the father was cleaning it in the house.  How an individual could not know it was loaded, or, how he could even THINK about cleaning it if he did know it was loaded is beyond me.  End result . . . a child died for no reason . . . a father will have to live with that the rest of his life . . . every minute of every day. . . . use common sense and always think "SAFTEY" . . . . it can be an enjoyable hobby but play safe. . . . . this applies to everybody . . . oldtimes and those new to the hobby as well.  I apologize for "ranting" . . . . I guess that I have just seen too many stupid actions and tragedies in my lifetime . . . . .

[FourBee]

I use to apply the Crisco, but after the smoke cleared up I was always looking like a 'greased pig' myself.   That got to be a pain, so I switched to the lubed wad's.   Personally I like them soooo much better.   I don't know how you guys do it with the Crisco thing.
4B

[curtism1234]

If you take a flathead screwdriver, you can apply the crisco,borebutter, etc without most of the mess. Of course when it's 90 degrees outside, the stuff melts all the place regardless

[Gatofeo]

See my Sticky post, "Proper Use of a Cap and Ball Revolver" at the beginning of this section.
It will answer many questions and guide you.

The last Traditions cap and ball revolver (an 1860 Colt Army) I purchased was made by Pietta. It was very well made, though still not quite as good as an Uberti. Still, for the money, it was a value.
The Ubertis are generally very well made, with an occasional dog slipping out of the factory. Ubertis have slightly deeper rifling, which tends to shrug off fouling longer than the other makes and their shallower rifling.
The deeper rifling can keep them shooting longer, and more accurately.

I do not suggest you buy a brass-framed revolver, for a number of reasons:
1. Brass-framed revolvers cannot shrug off the full loads that their steel-framed brethren can. Often, the brass gets pounded by the rear of the cylinder and the frame stretches or warps.
2. On the Colt designs, the steel cylinder pin screwed into the brass frame will loosen as the steel wears against the brass.
3. In my experience, brass-framed revolvers are not made as well as steel-framed guns. Their fitting is not as close and their final polishing is inferior. There are exceptions, and I've seen a few very nicely made brass-framed guns. But on the whole, brass-framed guns are cheaper than their steel counterpart because less time is invested in their manufacture.
4. Brass-framed revolvers require lighter charges to avoid wear and damage. This really isn't a problem for most shooters, since you don't need full charges to punch holes in cans or paper. Many people have brass-framed revolvers that they load down and have enjoyed them for years. Me, I like to use an occasional full charge just to get a feel for what the old-timers carried.
5. Brass-framed guns cannot use Hodgdon 777 powder. Hodgdon warns against using this propellant in brass-framed guns. It's powerful stuff. Frankly, the best propellant you'll find remains FFFG black powder. It may be difficult to find, but it's worth the chase.

The Confederates made brass-framed revolvers because they lacked the steel and foundries to make steel-framed revolvers. It was a last-ditch effort. If they could have made steel-framed revolvers instead, they would have.

If your heart is set on a Spiller & Burr brass-framed revolver, then happily get it.
But if you just want a good cap and ball, get an Uberti-made Remington 1858 in .44 caliber and use .454 or .457 balls in it. The stainless steel version is very forgiving about cleanup, so it's a good starter gun for the beginner.
My own Uberti-made Remington will put six .454 inch balls into a 1-1/2 inch circle at 25 yards from a benchrest. None of my other cap and balls will do that, though they come close.
If you can afford it, spend the extra money and buy quality. It will pay in the long run.

[homebuilt]

thanks for all the info. i ended up getting a 1858 NM army, from cabela's. it seems to be built fairly well, i did disassemble it and polish everything. the machining on the trigger and hammer mechanism was less than great. seem's to function very well now though. haven't shot it yet but will soon.

[FourBee]

Posted by: homebuilt ~  i ended up getting a 1858 NM army

Congrats on the purchase homebuilt;  Now you know   you gotta give us a range report.  

4B

[RD2]

homebuilt you made a good choice. Read the sticky Gatofeo wrote, he knows what he is talking about. Have fun !!!!