Using What I have

[Cayoot]

Recently, due to reasons I won't go into, I had to sell most of my firearms.  This included my Dan Wesson .44 Mag and .41 Mag as well as my S&W .41 Mag and a couple .357 Mags.  What I have left include a Ruger 7 1/2" stainless BH in .45 Colt (which is scoped), a blue BH in .41 Mag (6 1/2" bbl) and my 4" S&W 625 .45 ACP/AR (Performance Center).  I always enjoyed carrying a 4" stainless bbl when I go out in the woods in the snow or wet weather.

The only gun that I have left that would qualify is my 625.  So my question is this:

Do you think a load could be safely worked up that would include a 260 grn SWC (#452424 or #452423) moving at 1,000 fps?  I have a supply of Starline .45 AR brass that I can use.

This is my I.D.P.A. gun as well as my winter C.C. gun.  I really don't want to sell it just to get another mountain gun and I'm not in a financial position where I'll be purchasing another gun for a couple of years.

So tell me...am I dreaming of the impossible? Or do you guys know of some data where I could get the energy levels I want with out endangering my beloved 625 PC?

And finally, do you think a 260 grn SWC at 1,000 fps would provide adaquate woods protection during the winter and spring?  We mostly have dogs, wolves, some small to med sized black bears and a couple cougars around here.  Never heard of a 2 legged problem in our neck of the woods.

Thanks Guys

[blhof]

While the grain wt and speed is possible with the 45 acp., I would worry about a diet of this ammo in a race gun.  You would be better off with one of your other guns; the 41 has taken most American game very effectively and in a Ruger frame, it's as tough as they get.  The 45 LC is my sons hunting round in a 5 1/2" Ruger and he's been very successful with that combo.

[Cayoot]

Thanks blhof, but both of the Rugers are longer than I like to carry (the .41 is 6 1/2 and blue and the .45 Colt is 7 1/2 and scoped).

I really don't want to have my .41 cut down, it is a good size for hunting.  Also, when I come in, I'm usually drenched and so is the gun (inside and out).

Thus my desire for a 4 inch stainless.

[SHOOTALL]

I worked with a lineman who worked in AK after WW2 , He would ride the wire in a jeep and camp at night along the way . He checked for problems and repaired all he found . He was issued a Colt 45 ACP and holsterand belt for when working and climbing . He also had a shotgun in the truck . anyway it seems they thought the 45ACP was good enough .

He did mention the one time he encountered a grizz bear he was up the pole and the 45 was on the seat of the jeep next to his lunch . seems he watched the bear eat his lunch and trash the jeep .

[Savage]

Mikey will be along with the answer to your question soon. I have loaded 255gr LSWC bullets in the .45acp, but no where near 1000fps. Probably 900 would be doable and should solve any problem you're likely to encounter.

Savage

[spruce]

Personally I'd feel pretty confident with a SWC or other good bullet in .45 cal at 850fps or so to defend myself from the critters you describe.

I'd think the most likely danger would come from the wild dogs with possibly the cougars second.  Wolves most likely won't be any problem.  Medium size black bears (200-400lbs?) should be handled okay by a load in that range.

That's JMO, but I realize we all have different comfort levels.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have to agree with the others. Keep it to 900 and your gun will take alot less beating and no game animal will know the differnces.

[Ken ONeill]

Elmer Keith reported using 452424 and 13 gr. 2400 in 1917 S&W's, for a heavy load. I haven't tried it, but the pressure with 2400 should be lower than with the faster burning common .45ACP/AR powders. The 625 is stronger than the 1917's , and of course you'll be using the .452 version of that bullet. Remember that today's 2400 is faster than Elmer's 2400, so start lower and work up to something less than 13 gr. Like the others, I doubt that you'll reach a full 1000 fps with that 4" barrel, but there's nothing magic about 1000 that 850-950 won't handle just about as well.

[Dale53]

Cayoot;
You're getting good advice here. Just keep in mind that a 255 gr SWC at 900 fps exceeds the original factory .45 Colt and the Colt would literally shoot through a horse at 100 yards. That will take care of anything that you need taken care of at reasonable ranges.

Your 625 will last forever with that load and that is no small consideration...

The August-September (#254) Handloader Magazine had an excellent article on loading the .45 Auto rim by Brian Pearce that should answer most of your questions (if you can find a copy). I believe that you can buy a copy direct from Wolfe Publishing. In fact, I believe that you can order a FREE hard copy of this issue here:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?magid=561

Dale53

[Mikey]

Savage:  Thanks. 

Cayoot:  You probably will not get 1K'/sec from your 625 but it won't matter much.  The 454423, even when cast heavy, probably might get to 250 gns.  It starts life as a 238 grain Keith design slug for the 45 AR, the 454424 is Elmer Keith's design for the 45 Colt - that might get to 265 gns cast.  But, the 454423 slug, propelled by 6.8 of Unique attains 981'/sec from a 6.5" barrelled S&W M25.  Your load might be slower from a shorter barrel but still in the ballpark of what you want and quite workable; using the slower burning 2400 powder under that 454423 or the 454424 might even be better.  HTH.

[rawhidekid]

If you want higher velocity with lower pressure look at the Vitavouri powder.  I know it is expensive but it burns clean, meters well and does as advertised.  It does not cost anything to go to their web sight and check the loadings and pressure vers velocity.  I have used the V320 on 45 acp cases with good results; I would recomend checking it.  Hope this helps

[Cayoot]

Thanks guys..."There is safety in a multitude of counselors"...and there is a lot of knowledge in the coundelors that I find here.  I feel good about all that's been said here, and I think you guys are right.

Rawhidekid, I do like that powder, I've used it in some of my rifle loadings.  Thanks for reminding me about it.

[Old Griz]

If you feel you have to have that kind of velocity, Reed's Ammo has 185-gr +P Golden Sabers (I know that's a smaller bullet than you wanted) at 1150 FPS with 543 Ft-Lbs of energy. Now that ain't a half bad load coming out of a .45 ACP.
http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1335&categoryId=19
The 230-gr. pokes along at 942 FPS w/453 Ft-Lbs.
http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1338&categoryId=19

Since you gun also shoots the Auto/Rim he has several interesting rounds there, too, including a 260g RBBT Flat-Point Woodshed bullet at 900 FPS.
http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1628&categoryId=49

I think you've got a fine gun for almost any purpose, and there's plenty of good ammo out there to fine tune your mission.

Good luck.

[Cayoot]

Thanks you guys.  I’m persuaded that my .45 ACP 625 will do anything I could reasonably ask of it while out snow shoeing.  If I feel the need for anything heavier, it probably won’t be during “hibernation season”.  I’ll just carry my .41 mag Blackhawk then.

Now comes the fun part…I get to start working up loads for the 452423 and/or 452424.

I’ve got a mould for the .45-270 SAA….has anybody ever tried that in a .45 AR?

[.41 special]

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the smith&wesson forum about heavy loads in 625s.

[Cayoot]

Thanks...I haven't been there in a coon's age...I'll go check it out.

[Ak.Hiker]

Both Double Tap and Buffalo Bore are loading cast loads for the 45 AR. DT is running a 255 Keith at 904. This should be plenty for the woods. I will be carrying my S&W 1955 this winter loaded with a hard cast 250 grain RNFP at 900 or so. It is a good load and hits hard.   

[.41 special]

You didn't ask, but both of my 625-3s are loaded with Buffalo Bore .45 super 230gr jhp. They don't seem to have a lot more recoil than a .45acp+P, even in my 3in.

[Cayoot]

You didn't ask, but both of my 625-3s are loaded with Buffalo Bore .45 super 230gr jhp. They don't seem to have a lot more recoil than a .45acp+P, even in my 3in.

What kind of velocity are you getting from them?

[Cayoot]

There has been quite a bit of discussion on the smith&wesson forum about heavy loads in 625s.

I looked, but I couldn't find anything relavent.  Could you please post a link to some of the threads?

Thanks

[.41 special]

Look at old posts by s Smith Crazy, and Paul5388. Go to Cast Boolits web site, scroll to bottom of page, click on Castpics, click on articles by members, look for Heavy bullets for .45acp.