Gilleland Double-Barrelled Cannon

[carronader]

now if that was cast in .........say .50 cal.....in a good hard wood........you could still keep the carriage slim and elegant...........still be strong enough to take full charge.........gotta be a slim carriage

[dan610324]

but it is a very special tube

[Boom J]

Dan; you've got pics of some double & triple tubed bronze guns that are incredible, I'm surprised you haven't posted any on this thread.

[Max Caliber]

Dan, I only have that one picture. I'm pretty sure that it was made at the old U.S. Infantry Museum.

[dan610324]

the 3 bore ok , but cant remember that I got any doubble bore
or is it just that Im being too old  

here is a few of the tripple bore

[Boom J]

OK, I was wrong about the two barrel, but wasn't there another three barrel gun where the bores weren't open to each other, or am I thinking about something from the St. Petersburg museum?

PS That gun is a beauty!

[dan610324]

here is some more pict
before I actuall seen this barrel I just had some drawings , and in them it looked as it was 3 bores with just a connection between the chambers

[RocklockI]

how about that little 19mm 7 bore gun in the Visser Collection ? with the little babies on the brech vent cover ?

Gary

[seacoastartillery]

     That seven barrel cannon is one of my favorites.  I sure would like to see it's artistry again someday, if I could ever get my book back.......................................................Gary.

T.   

[Boom J]

Gary,
I think I know which piece you're talking about, but I'm not sure. Is it the piece that's on the cover of the catalog?

Thanks for more pics, Dan.

[RocklockI]

Yes Vol.II Visser collection ,Its got some great phots ,i 'll photo a couple if you like ?

The funny part is ...nobody knows who made it ! Not even which country for sure .

[RocklockI]

Seven Bore
sorry about the poor pics but this is the one






Gary

[Boom J]

Thanks, Gary; those photos are pretty good for being taken from the page. I had only seen the one cover photo of this gun before, now I can see some of those intricate details a lot clearer. I see that each bore had its own vent, and talk about a fancy vent cover, this ones got to take the prize. I find it very interesting that these European gun founders used ancient mythology to describe their creations. The three bore cannon that Dan posted here, and on some other threads, has the figure of Cerberus the three headed hound on its chase, and this one has (what I assume to be) the figures of Romulus and Remus (the twin founders of Rome) on top of the hinged vent cover. I'm guessing that the seven barrels may symbolically represent the seven hills of Rome. These are definitely two of the most fantastic cannons that I've ever seen.

[cannonmn]

I had a chance to buy that cannon from the owner in Santa Monca CA back in 1984, but he really liked it and wanted I think $40K back then, which is like what $100K now.  I did get a beautiful professional photos of it in a gold frame, which I still have, but that's all I got.  The same collector had a 3-barrel cannon that was a bit cheaper but I left it there too.  That's the place I got the 1681 Dutch cannon by Petrus Overney, which I like better than the 7 or the 3 barrel cannons he had.  That was Frank Bivins.  His book is called "Vari-type Firearms" which is really a spiral-bound notebook, not professionally printed or bound, but there's some very unusual stuff in it, some of which is here now. 

The piece I really kick myself for not getting from him is an Indian-cast bronze tube about 5 feet long, a 2-pounder gun, with renderings of a lion's head on the muzzle, trunnions, and breech, the lion's mouth being the muzzle.  It had been captured by the British at the seige of the mud forts at Suringaptim (sp?) in something like 1799, and had British marks on it (weight, caliber) which meant to me they intended to use it or did use it after capture.  He wanted $8k for it back then, but I had already spent about all I had available already.  I went home, borrowed some money, but by then it was too late, someone else got it.

[Boom J]

What would you estimate that these two cannons (three & seven barrel) would bring in today, if they were offered for sale?

[dan610324]

already before I got this info about the twins and the 7 hills of rome I have suspected that it was italian
as many or maybe most of all extreme barrels Ive seen was italian
so this info just make that feeling stronger

prices for such extreme barrels are almost impossible to tell as there isnt any such barrels for sale
but I would guess that if there was a cerberus for sale today in its original sledge carriage with just 2 existing samples in the world , somewhere around 400 000 - 500 000 $

barrels isnt the hard part to find originals
but to find 350 year old original carriages is much more difficult
the cerberus are cast 1701 but they reused older sledges as carriages
I would guess they are mid 1600
unfortunately they are repainted somewhere between 1701 and 1830 , but still extremely rare

[dan610324]

here you got an original carriage from 1559 where the original painting still is intact
its for a half pounder barrel
the paintwork have probably been much much brighter
probably approximately the same or very close to the shade shown on the sledge
this is the oldest carriage with original painting that I know of

[dan610324]

another wiew

both this pictures are very large so you can open them and enlarge them for all details you want to check

[Boom J]

Thanks, Dan. Five hundred thousand! I'd guess that we're not going to be seeing anyone from this board posting their new ownership photos of either one of those beauties any time soon, although with the Cannonmn, one never knows.

I saved those pics of the sled carriage from when you posted them before; its one of my favorites.

Notice the wheels of the field carriage; those are strake constructed wheels, but they're not bulky, and massive looking, like most examples of strake wheels that I've seen.

[dan610324]

what does strake mean ??

[Boom J]

The strakes are the bands of metal that wrap around the felloes, and hold the iron bands on the wheel. These types of wheels preceded the hooped dished wooden wheel (where the tyre was made of one piece, and was heat shrunk over the felloes) historically. Usually strake wheels of that time period had larger/heavier felloes, spokes, and naves, to give the wheel more strength, and durability. The hooped carriage wheels that came later could be made more slender, and graceful looking, because the heat shrunk tyre compressed the construction of the wheel tightly, providing it with great strength.

[GGaskill]

... because the heat shrunk tyre compressed the construction of the wheel tightly, providing it with great strength.

While I would agree 100% on this when talking about a flat wheel, on a dished wheel it appears to me that the tire could cause the collapse of the wheel if it were too tight since it has a moment (or lever arm) against the spokes, while it doesn't on a flat wheel.  The tire certainly will prevent the dished wheel from expanding, which is a good thing, but it has to fit pretty closely and not too tight or it will pull the spokes together in the other direction.

[dan610324]

wheels cant have much more grace then this wheels have , as you say they are often much thicker

[RocklockI]

just when you show some promise ? Only a tube ?, Even an Englishman could clearly see that the barrel is not A "tube"  , mercy ! Where do you's europeans find yourselfs anyhow ?

In the great scheme of life and everything that IS ?? There are clearly TWO TUBES ! ......joined together !!!!!!. crips   ... it never ends !

some counries may have never made two shooters as they may have thought that there was only one barrel ....whats the future in that ?

But I do like your accent !

smiles And Ducks a wild right hand !

Gary

[Boom J]

... because the heat shrunk tyre compressed the construction of the wheel tightly, providing it with great strength.

While I would agree 100% on this when talking about a flat wheel, on a dished wheel it appears to me that the tire could cause the collapse of the wheel if it were too tight since it has a moment (or lever arm) against the spokes, while it doesn't on a flat wheel.  The tire certainly will prevent the dished wheel from expanding, which is a good thing, but it has to fit pretty closely and not too tight or it will pull the spokes together in the other direction.

You're absolutely correct; if the outside surface (sole) of the felloes was not measured (by a wheeled instrument called a traveller) accurately, and then this inaccurate measurement was trasferred to the iron strip that would form the tyre 'hoop' when it was welded together, as the heated tyre cooled on the felloes it could apply too much compression to the wheel, ruining the whole construction.