45-120 information

[harley berry]

i need a phone number or an e-mail address for somebody that can bore my 45-70 to 45-120.I personally dont want to do it i would rather pay someone to do it for me that knows what he is doing. Any help on this topic would be greatly helpful thanks a-lot guys

[knight0334]

Are you near mid-central PA?  I own my own 45-120 reamer..

[quickdtoo]

Site sponsor Wayne York of Oregunsmithing does most of the work for members here, he's done a bunch of work for me. 

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/id11.html

[harley berry]

located in vermont

[quickdtoo]

Most of his work is shipped to him, mine included, he used to live about an hour from me, but he moved several years ago.

Tim

[harley berry]

thanks tim, but how much do they charge for a basic rebore to 45-120

Site sponsor Wayne York of Oregunsmithing does most of the work for members here, he's done a bunch of work for me.  

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/id11.html

[quickdtoo]

You're wanting a rechamber, not a rebore, his prices are listed on his website, $100 if he has the reamer, add the cost of a reamer rental and shipping to that if he doesn't, you'd have to ask him.

Tim

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/id13.html

[AtlLaw]

I did my own.  If I can do it, anybody can!  Columbus took a chance and he's in the history books!   

Get a throater also!  Tyler has the extension I made in the 45-120.

[peternap]

I'm not really sure why you'd want one other than the "WOW" factor.

Above te 45/70 it takes a great deal of extra powder to make a small difference in velocity.

[AtlLaw]

I'm not even going to dignify peternap's remark by quoting or addressing it!     Tim, where's Tyler?  We got some light work for the boy to take care of...   

[quickdtoo]

I dunno where that boy is when we need him!!  But just to put it mildly, 45-120 smokeless loads can leave any 45-70 load lagging well behind while doing it at lower pressures, but it does use more powder.

Tim

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,148995.msg1098618734.html#msg1098618734

[peternap]

I'm not even going to dignify peternap's remark by quoting or addressing it!     Tim, where's Tyler?  We got some light work for the boy to take care of...   

I don't care if you address it or not. Facts is Facts.
Very poor efficiency over te 45/70. If you like it, use it, but don't whiz down my neck and tell me it's raining!

[tykempster]

WHAT.  85 grains to shoot a 405 at 2550 fps. 

Straight from the book, it takes the 45-70 53 grains of powder to shoot a 405 grain at 2100 fps.

So lets do a little math, 32 grains for 450 fps.  That's 14 fps per grain of powder.  Or a 32 grains is 27.2% of the powder if we look at it this way.  Don't forget we're using 10,000 PSI less pressure.

Lets compare to a smaller bore that gains a similar amount of it's velocity with a similar weight bullet. 

308 Winchester can shoot a 180 grain bullet at 2700 fps with 45 grains of powder.  A 300 Win Mag can eek out 3050 fps with 81 grains of powder.  Gaining 450 fps with 36 grains more powder, but since it's going faster to start with it's gaining a less proportional amount.

To gain 14.8% velocity it takes 29.2% more powder.

So in essence the 300 Win Mag is LESS efficient, and you don't hear anyone calling it out for being a no good powder burner for marginally better ballistics.

My 45-120 can drive bullets 500+ fps faster than possible with the 45-70 at the same pressure, not to mention the energy is nearly 6000 ft-lbs vs. not quite 3500 ft-lbs at the same pressure.  To me that's a meaningful difference.

[Swampman]

Anything bigger than the .45-90 is a waste of time unless you're only going to use blackpowder IMO.  The .45-70 with the hottest loads is more than most people can stand.

[peternap]

WHAT.  85 grains to shoot a 405 at 2550 fps. 

Straight from the book, it takes the 45-70 53 grains of powder to shoot a 405 grain at 2100 fps.

So lets do a little math, 32 grains for 450 fps.  That's 14 fps per grain of powder.  Or a 32 grains is 27.2% of the powder if we look at it this way.  Don't forget we're using 10,000 PSI less pressure.

Lets compare to a smaller bore that gains a similar amount of it's velocity with a similar weight bullet. 

308 Winchester can shoot a 180 grain bullet at 2700 fps with 45 grains of powder.  A 300 Win Mag can eek out 3050 fps with 81 grains of powder.  Gaining 450 fps with 36 grains more powder, but since it's going faster to start with it's gaining a less proportional amount.

To gain 14.8% velocity it takes 29.2% more powder.

So in essence the 300 Win Mag is LESS efficient, and you don't hear anyone calling it out for being a no good powder burner for marginally better ballistics.

My 45-120 can drive bullets 500+ fps faster than possible with the 45-70 at the same pressure, not to mention the energy is nearly 6000 ft-lbs vs. not quite 3500 ft-lbs at the same pressure.  To me that's a meaningful difference.

A. We aren't talking about the 300 mag but since you brought it up, you didn't mention the extra barrel length it took to get a good burn with it and yes, lots of people that don't need the extra range think it's pretty inefficient.

What we're talking about is a black powder cartridge (s) and it's questionable how popular the 120 was even with BP.
I'll give you the pressure aspect because it's true. Big case= lower pressure. From there the efficiency ends and that's not even efficiency, it's just low pressure.

Sure you can drive them faster. What powder? What's your accuracy like? How long did it take to find the sweet spot?
The simple truth is the 45/70 is a user friendly round and can get good ballistics at safe pressures with little workup.

When you start adding on to the case length, the pressures go down with the efficiency and unless all you want to do is wave the cigar length case at the other folks on the range and shoot through a sky screen, the 45/70 is simply a better cartridge.

We don't even have to mention the cost of the cases or the problems with vertical stringing, etc. Just plain inefficient.

But like I said, if you like it Shoot it!

[tykempster]

"From there the efficiency ends and that's not even efficiency, it's just low pressure."
-It's more efficient than smaller bore rounds.

"What powder?"
-IMR 4320 for 405 grain bullets.

"What's your accuracy like?"
-It goes wherever I point it.  I benched the gun a couple times to check sights and such.  Beyond that it's an offhand proposition.

"How long did it take to find the sweet spot?"
-This isn't really a bench gun...it's as far as I can hold steady offhand, so on game 200< yards.  Two moa at that distance is much better than I can shoot offhand consistently.

"The simple truth is the 45/70 is a user friendly round and can get good ballistics at safe pressures with little workup."
-I can do the exact same thing with my 45-120, just more powder. 

"When you start adding on to the case length, the pressures go down with the efficiency and unless all you want to do is wave the cigar length case at the other folks on the range and shoot through a sky screen, the 45/70 is simply a better cartridge."
-What if I just wanted a considerable boost in ballistics putting the 45-120 on par with a 458 Lott?  It gets shot much more than just "for show".

"We don't even have to mention the cost of the cases or the problems with vertical stringing, etc. Just plain inefficient."
-Running 40k pressures 20 cases has lasted me several hundred shots with primer pockets doing fantastic.  Vertical stringing is probably not much of an issue at 100 yards although I have to concede it probably does exist to some extent.

In summary, it's not any more inefficient than a number of popular calibers, and much more efficient than the newest trend of hugely overbore magnums.  Plus it's fun to shoot.

[peternap]

"From there the efficiency ends and that's not even efficiency, it's just low pressure."
-It's more efficient than smaller bore rounds.

"What powder?"
-IMR 4320 for 405 grain bullets.

"What's your accuracy like?"
-It goes wherever I point it.  I benched the gun a couple times to check sights and such.  Beyond that it's an offhand proposition.

"How long did it take to find the sweet spot?"
-This isn't really a bench gun...it's as far as I can hold steady offhand, so on game 200< yards.  Two moa at that distance is much better than I can shoot offhand consistently.

"The simple truth is the 45/70 is a user friendly round and can get good ballistics at safe pressures with little workup."
-I can do the exact same thing with my 45-120, just more powder.  

"When you start adding on to the case length, the pressures go down with the efficiency and unless all you want to do is wave the cigar length case at the other folks on the range and shoot through a sky screen, the 45/70 is simply a better cartridge."
-What if I just wanted a considerable boost in ballistics putting the 45-120 on par with a 458 Lott?  It gets shot much more than just "for show".

"We don't even have to mention the cost of the cases or the problems with vertical stringing, etc. Just plain inefficient."
-Running 40k pressures 20 cases has lasted me several hundred shots with primer pockets doing fantastic.  Vertical stringing is probably not much of an issue at 100 yards although I have to concede it probably does exist to some extent.

In summary, it's not any more inefficient than a number of popular calibers, and much more efficient than the newest trend of hugely overbore magnums.  Plus it's fun to shoot.

I already told you to shoot it if you like it so much...but pardon me if I don't close my umbrella

In summary, it's not any more inefficient than a number of popular calibers, and much more efficient than the newest trend of hugely overbore magnums.  Plus it's fun to shoot.




I agree with that 100% and fun is very much a part of it. In case you haven't noticed, I have this thing about making the biggest holes possible, then making them bigger. That's inefficient too (Figure 100 gtains of RE 17 per shot) and or 60 couple grains of Blue Dot. And it's fun!
I've never been a big fan of the newer and not so new, Overbore cartridges. If you need the extra range, sure, but as a general hunting gun, no way. I love the 280 (Remington Express, Etc) and really dislike the 7mm Magnum.

The OP was talking about rechambering his 45/70 to 45/120. Bad move IMHO.
Now if he had two 45/70's and wanted to rechamber one.....have fun!

[smokinjoe5150]

You know, if all that concerns the shooter is efficiency, then we'll all have to stick with the .22 short!   

[AtlLaw]

WHAT. <major snippage>

That's my boy!   

[AtlLaw]

The .45-70 with the hottest loads is more than most people can stand.

Very true Swamps...    But then, some of us are not "most people"...    You know, the few real "manly men" left in this world!     "Most" men suffer from that new wave sensitivity ailment that started a few decades ago.  "Most" men are a little to much in touch with their "feminine" side!     Heck, I hear some a them don't even need wimmins for their ... uh, ... recreational gratification!   

Of course that doesn't apply to anyone here at GBO!  Only "real" men come here because they can find others of the same ilk to discuss manly things with!     And while an occasional individual of the alternate lifestyle persuation may stop by, drawn by the testosterone I'll bet, they don't last long.  We don't put up with that sort of stuff in this garden!

Nope, here at GBO we mostly have real men with, at MOST, a smattering of those still suffering from the liberal social aftermath of the 60's.  We know who they are and help them, in our own way, to beat that "feminine side" crap outa them! 

Oh well, I could go on, but I've got to fix my hair and go to work... 

[peternap]

WHAT. <major snippage>

That's my boy!  

That's my boy

I rarely shoot cast at 2400 fps because real men like our lead to go down range, not in the barrel.
But on the rare occasion I do, I use 4198.

So let's look at the manly 45/120 with that powder.

45 grains of 4198 will take a 405 grain bullet to 1708fps

Gee, that's odd

41 grains will take the same bullet to 1872 in the 45/70

You aren't from up north by any chance, are you
Things are always faster up there

Now Sunday, when we can't hunt because of some secret reason the DGIF won't talk about...I'm going to work on a truly efficient and sane cartridge.
I'm going to see how the 12FH handles light bullets like the 1000 grain Blammy Bullets at moderate velocities. That's a really useful varmint load

[Swampman]

Some have to compensate and some don't.

[peternap]

Some have to compensate and some don't.

Don't let him frazzle you Swampman. He's exaggerating.
Look...He claims he's going to do his hair.


But he ain't got any. Must have burned it off with the muzzle flash all that unburned powder puts out.

[Chas.]

That's on Sunday.  Here's the real AtlLaw.  I'll bet he makes you look folicularly challenged.


Oops, I forgot...

[peternap]

That's on Sunday.  Here's the real AtlLaw.  I'll bet he makes you look folicularly challenged.


Oops, I forgot...

Hmmmmm...
I haven't had that head of hair since 68. I got the beard beat though. Been considering a comb up