headspace

[stxhunter]

I have heard that you do not want the end of your shell case to be below the end of the chamber. I am shooting a 308 win. and have tried several makes of loads. I have a dial indicator setup for measurements and it seems most are an average of 1.5 to 2 thousanths below the chamber end. The remedy is said to be to cut the breech end down to allow the case end to protrude a couple thousanths to help in adjusting the head spaceing. Anybody ever run across this? Is it really a problem?

[Grumulkin]

Does the gun shoot OK?  If so, don't worry about it.  If it's a problem, and I don't think it is, I wouldn't be turning the breech end down as that will void your lifetime warranty.  If it's really a problem with misfires, etc., talk to T/C about it and I'm sure they'll make it good.

There is one who used to post on this forum who was long ago banned who makes a great issue over excessive Encore headspace and the cure thereof.  In using several receivers over the years with dozens of barrels, I've never personally experienced the problem with headspace alleged to frequently occur.

[stxhunter]

The barrel in question is a new MGM 20 in. heavy barrel. I am haveing trouble getting consistant groups. anything from nickle groups to 1 3/4 in. groups at 100yd. I have tried a variety of factory loads and they all seem about the same. I know I was haveing some fore arm issues and resolved them but still can't get any consistant groups. I have a Leupold vari x2 scope and burris zee ring setup. This is the only thing I have not tried is a different scope. Everthing else on the gun seems to be good as far as trigger action etc. Maybe this barrel does not like 150 grain lead. thanks for your reply and any other ideas to try.

[Grumulkin]

I've gotten good results in several 308s with 168 gr. bullets over IMR 4064.  Mine never did that well with 150 gr. bullets.  Varget would be another powder to try.  Seat the bullets just off the lands and, starting low, work up the powder charged until the groups start widening after initially tightening or until sticky extraction occurs whichever occurs first.

The scope could also be the problem.  A 2X scope doesn't give much magnification for shooting groups or the scope could be malfunctioning.

[Hopalong7]

     In the real world nickel size groups are not bad.  I don't see where turning down the breech would accomplish anything .  As Grumulkin said, if you're getting consistent ignition, I wouldn't worry about it.

[skb2706]

Its a pretty short list of guys who can shoot a "nickle size group" with a 2x scope no matter what gun its on. If there is an issue with an MGM barrel call Kerry and tell him what it is. They will make it good.

[southernutah]

there is 0-10 thousands tolerance built into every barrel. where you fall into this is a crap shoot.I have barrels that the headspace is +.003 to + .008. factory ammo I have measured with a RCBS precession mic is usually in the -.002 range. Add the headspace you can be +.012.

[stxhunter]

Sounds like I do not need to worry about the headspaceing as I know it is less than .005. The scope is a 3x9 power and it is not shooting consistant groups. It will shoot a 1in. group then a 2in. then turn around a shoot a less than 3/4 group with the same loads. Must not holding my tongue right I guess. I think I am going to try a different scope and ring setup I have and try that.

[southernutah]

stx, be sure you rest the same place on the forearm each time. moving back and forward will change the weight forward during recoil. you might try a bipod that mounts to the sling stud

[stxhunter]

will keep that in mind Southernutah. thanks

[JON8777]

I spent a weekend measuring every brl to pin dimension, every case (fired, loaded, re-sized w/o primer and re-sized) and found them to range from -.003 to .000 into the chamber. I shimmed my pin to +.003 from the worse case brl and then remeasured every brl on the frame with and without the 3 different cases. Your range should be .002-.006 of head space.

I would only do this if you are having case splits or misfires.

Try another ammo brand or powder... save the madness of head spacing the Encore for another day.

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

There is one who used to post on this forum who was long ago banned who makes a great issue over excessive Encore headspace and the cure thereof.  In using several receivers over the years with dozens of barrels, I've never personally experienced the problem with headspace alleged to frequently occur.

I think MB is full of crap (IMO). If you do have a head space problem and reload you can take care of it with the dies.  STX, are you positive it isnt you and not the barrel?  Just a thought

[skb2706]

There is one who used to post on this forum who was long ago banned who makes a great issue over excessive Encore headspace and the cure thereof.  In using several receivers over the years with dozens of barrels, I've never personally experienced the problem with headspace alleged to frequently occur.

I think MB is full of crap (IMO). If you do have a head space problem and reload you can take care of it with the dies.  STX, are you positive it isnt you and not the barrel?  Just a thought

Maybe but thats exactly what he tell you to do to resolve any headspace issues. So does that make you full of crap too ?

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

There is one who used to post on this forum who was long ago banned who makes a great issue over excessive Encore headspace and the cure thereof.  In using several receivers over the years with dozens of barrels, I've never personally experienced the problem with headspace alleged to frequently occur.

I think MB is full of crap (IMO). If you do have a head space problem and reload you can take care of it with the dies.  STX, are you positive it isnt you and not the barrel?  Just a thought

Maybe but thats exactly what he tell you to do to resolve any headspace issues. So does that make you full of crap too ?

No, he claims all kind of issues that I have never had a problem with

[scratcherky]

The Encore & Contender platforms should be able to fire factory ammo without headspace problems. Why should one spend hundreds of dollars on a gun & have to reload ammo to adjust headspace?

[Keith L]

I can't speak for Encores, but I have a mixed bag of original Contenders and G2s, and a boat load of barrels and I have never had a head space issue.

[skb2706]

If you peruse down thru the posts on this forum you will see that there are plenty of guys who DO have problems with headspace or handloading ammo for their TCs.

[ricktile66]

Yes, there are headspace problems with the Encore.  I had the same problem with my .308.  If I full length resized I would get misfires quite often.  Now I partial full-length resize and never have a misfire.  I adjust the die until the case is flush with the back of the chamber and the gun still closes easily.  A heavier hammer spring will also fix the problem but your casings will suffer from excessive stretch and life will be greatly reduced.

[saltydog]

Accuracy loads for hunting or target shooting ? My first question would be how many different brands of 150's have you tried and how many powder variations ? If you want to identify an accurate load for your rifle the first thing you do is jettison the scope and put a 6-20 or higher power on it. There is no way you can shoot to same point with a 2X Leupold at 100 yards with that scope. Then buy some Hordady SST's or Nosler BT's, Sierra Game Kings or Barnes bullets and some H4895 or Varget powder. Check the manuals and load ammo moving up in grains - you will most likely find 42-44 ish will be the most accurate with Varget depending on your brass (mil spec or commercial). Fire 5 shot groups letting with a fouled barrel and letting the rifle cool a few minutes between shoots and see which one is the best.