Will we ever see a 460 S&W Handi??

[BMKindoll]

Just curious as to if you guys think that they will ever produce a Handi Rifle chambered in 460 S&W?  I would love it as I am sure most folks would.  What do you all think?

Brandon

[Default]

Brandon we have members that took the 45 long colt chambered rifle and reamed the chamber to 454 Casull and to the 460 S&W mag , From what the guys say it is relatively easy..

 And then you dont have to wait for the factory to offer that chambering


     Default

[BMKindoll]

OK might have to consider that.  What is involved in doing something like that?  What would I need to do that? Thanks.

Brandon

[Doublebass73]

Do a search for 454 reamer and you'll see that there's a few threads about it. I believe there is a member here that bought one and is going to do a rental program. I'm considering it myself, I have a 45 Colt Carbine. I have a bad shoulder so I'm going to load some max 45 colt loads and see how my shoulder likes it before I decide on whether to ream it or not.

[Wolfgang]

BMKindoll,

If it is anything close to reaming a 357 mag out to 357 max then it's a piece of cake.  I got the Max reamer from Quickdtoo, and even really taking my time and using lotss of cutting oil the job only took about a half hour.  Check the FAQ's they have a LOT of info about the Handi's and hand reaming is discussed there as well.

Wolfgang

[preventec47]

Even though NEF withdrew the 7mm Rem Mag and the 300 WSM from the lineup
before production allegedly because of hi pressures,  the SW 460 has pressures
no greater than the WIN 270 and those seem to do ok in the Handi rifles.
So the easy question is whether the diameter of the cartridge at the head
of the 460 is bigger than the 30-06 / 270 cartridge head.  ( I dont know
but it would be easy to find out )   The total stress to the receiver
is the product of the pressure times the square area of the cartridge head.
Not sure but I seem to recall that the 460 is a little higher pressure
than even the 454 Casull.   

[guns-o-fun]

Reloaders bench data gives 460 S&W Mag as 0.512 and the 270 as 0.473.  None the less, Quickdtoo has been shooting his apparently without any pressure-related problems.  Of course, nothing dictates that you have to load maximum loads, either.

[quickdtoo]

The 460S&W has the same size case head as the 45 Colt and 454 Casull at approx .478-.480" depending on who's diagram you use, SAAMI MAP for both the 460 and 454 is 65kpsi, the 460S&W works fine on a modern SB2 frame, I get nearly 2900fps with the 200gr Hornady factory load in my 20" H&R, accuracy is 2½-3" at 100yds. The rim size of .512" has nothing to do with case head thrust(bolt thrust), it's calculated using the internal case head surface area and the pressure.

Tim

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

Bolt Thrust

Bolt thrust is easy to calculate. Only two inputs are required. They are peak chamber pressure in PSI and as mentioned, the inside area of the case head that the gas pressure can work on. The formula then is:

THRUST=AREA*CPSI Where:

AREA=3.1416*(HS/2)^2

[guns-o-fun]

Quick

Thanks for the informative links.  So what is the inside case diameter of the 460?  I don't see it listed in the table
 ....Duh, I see you already stated it as the same as the 45LC and 454 Casull....Sorry.  In that case, its hard to imagine why there would be any problem at all.  Good news.

[gendoc]

i'll show ya mine prolly round sunday after i test it...
its more than just a lil reaming, not as quick as the 357 max job.
but i went from lc to .460.... it takes time.....don't get in any hurry
i used kroil cutting fluid, and it performs well
the 4-D reamer has a pilot and rim cutter.
no need to cut the rim... thats your stopping point.
about every revolution i cleaned the reamer.
ya dont want to have a burr in the cutter!!!
some say it don't matter....but its my barrel
thanks tim!!!!!!!!!

[preventec47]

Given the calculated pressure as product of the area times pressure,  Therefore
isnt the result greater than any other existing factory available caliber including
the SW 500 ?

Based on the formula I also conclude that 460 is no higher stress than
the 454 casull.   Higher performance comes from longer powder burn
and not higher pressure.

What kind of loads is Quicktodo using.  Any factory ammo or is he
downloaded to less than max in the reload charts ?

[cwlongshot]

I have a 45 colt barrel that I re-chambered to 454 casull.

Accuracy has been stellar, the very first loading produced near one hole groups at 50 yards.

 Sure recoil is more, the the 460 is still more yet. The colt really gave me about everything I needed. But some new bullets designed for higher velocities urged me to try the longer 454. It's got more going for it than just a bit more length. The hotter small rifle primers work better for the larger amounts of pistol powder.
 As neat as it would be for yet another cambering, the 460 does little my 45/70 will not. So for me, the 454 made more sense.

CW

[quickdtoo]

.

What kind of loads is Quicktodo using.  Any factory ammo or is he
downloaded to less than max in the reload charts ?

The 460S&W has the same size case head as the 45 Colt and 454 Casull at approx .478-.480" depending on who's diagram you use, SAAMI MAP for both the 460 and 454 is 65kpsi, the 460S&W works fine on a modern SB2 frame, I get nearly 2900fps with the 200gr Hornady factory load in my 20" H&R, accuracy is 2½-3" at 100yds. The rim size of .512" has nothing to do with case head thrust(bolt thrust), it's calculated using the internal case head surface area and the pressure.

Tim

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/custom_actions/bolt_lug_strength.htm

Bolt Thrust

Bolt thrust is easy to calculate. Only two inputs are required. They are peak chamber pressure in PSI and as mentioned, the inside area of the case head that the gas pressure can work on. The formula then is:

THRUST=AREA*CPSI Where:

AREA=3.1416*(HS/2)^2

[preventec47]

Quicktodoo said:
"the 460S&W works fine on a modern SB2 frame, I get nearly 2900fps with the 200gr
Hornady factory load in my 20" H&R, accuracy is 2½-3" at 100yds."
===========================

I had to let this settle in for a few days.  I think this is remarkable because that
is better than I can do with a Mauser K-98  with full European max loads shooting
the same weight 200 grain bullet.   Better in terms of velocity and accuracy
I hate to admit :-)

[quickdtoo]

Don't get too excited over the velocity, the short, fat bullet has a terrible BC of .151, in a pistol it looses almost 500fps at 100yds.  Handloaded 250gr SST muzzleloader bullets run ~2400fps with about the same accuracy, maybe a bit better.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/460-SW-200-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

[gendoc]

honestly tim,
how long did it take you by hand ?
i'm in my 6th hour!!!!!!
but i'm take'n my time, lotsa breaks...
50 years ago prolly cud cut that time down by 2/3rds
oh-well... have'n fun!!!
dead line is when i can't see the paper this even'n for a proof-shoot

its gonna happen, even if i have ta get my son to take over

[quickdtoo]

I think it took about an hour, maybe the reamer is dull? I used Tap Magic cutting fluid, what are you using?


Tim

[gendoc]

kroil cutting and lapping fluid...
works good when threading black iron pipe and
and reaming other barrels.

yep, i know its dull... my other reamers are quite faster.
but never had to ream a distance THIS DEEP !!!!!!!!

not much pressure is being applied.. since its rented, i dont want it to snap!!!!!

verticle mounted in a gun vise and have the pleasure of my grandson to keep an eye on me !!!!
so i don't shove a leggo up my nose or swallow the little man !!!!!

[guns-o-fun]

OK - so we are talking 45 cal bullets all around here, 454, 460 Smith, or 45 LC.  The ballistic coefficients (with maybe the exception of the FTX bullets) should all be about the same.  So, in practical terms - what's better if you want a little more punch than the 45 LC, 454 or 460?  I know, just buy a 45-70.  But one reason I like the pistol caliber handi is that it takes less powder to do the job.

[cwlongshot]

I like the 300+ weights, always have. Longer as well as more streamlined bullets have a higher SD.

CW

[guns-o-fun]

I'm with you on that one, CW.  Hodgdon's data for the 454 and 460 are similar for bullet weight range, though.  So, I am still in a quandry.  I guess for all practical purposes, +P 45 LC loads are probably good enough for deer at a reasonable range.  It looks like the range of pressures for the 454 are a little lower than the 460 - a little longer action life??