DW and “power port”(sort of) recoil reducing system

[Onty]

I remembered an article in older gun magazine about 44 DW with some sort of recoil reducing system that has several smaller holes drilled on barrel, just behind front thread. Writer also mentioned that noted system works well with jacketed bullets only, cast ones will eventually clog the system and he had hard time taking barrel sleeve of.

Can anybody enlighten me how that system works, is any porting on barrel sleeve itself, what is approximate reduce of recoil?

Thanks, Onty.

[Steel Shooter]

Yes, I believe there are two slots, one on either side of the front sight, whereby the gases come out of the barrel shroud. It was very effective, according to Dan Wesson Monson, MA personnel, and also some magazine reviews written at the time. Percent effective - I don't recall. And, you are correct with regard to the comments on jacketed and lead bullet usage.

I have asked CZ-USA if they would do this type of recoil reduction in guns they build today, and their answer was no, due to the difficulty in removing the barrel and shroud if a customer let it go way too long without cleaning the ports and expansion chamber formed inside the end of the shroud. IMO, that is a shame since the "Power Port" looks so much nicer, cosmetically, than what they currently put on their guns today.

[BLASERMAN]

  I have spoken to Magnaport, they will do the porting on a Dan Wesson. I have had rifles done by them in the past and was completely satisfied with there service.

[DWTim]

I would think it would be difficult to do right, since the barrels on most DWs are not fixed. They couldn't just drill a few holes in the top, because depending on how the customer gaps the gun, they might not line up. Also, there is considerable distance between the inner face of the shroud and the outside of the barrel, so there is a lot of room for fouling to collect.

I have seen some DWs ported. I wish I saved the picture, but there used to be one on Gunsamerica. It had a series of evenly-spaced holes around the circumference of the barrel, and the shroud was ported at the top. I suppose the idea is that the gases will find their way out the top. Personally, I wouldn't want super-hot, super-high-pressure gases eroding the barrel shroud.

Then there is this: http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=78
I have not seen an Alaskan Guide up close, so I do not know how that barrel assembly works. The barrel length is listed at 4 inches, so from the picture I'm guessing that the Alaskan's port system is simply a barrel extension.

Yeah, I'm no fan of porting... Now I'm afraid I'm going to have to utter sacrilege...

To answer your question about how the system works: Porting lowers the pressure in the bore at the point of porting by releasing gas. The bullet therefore does not reach the speed it would out of a "closed" barrel of the same length. Less velocity means less force pushing in the opposite direction. The volume of gas (which has a mass, just like the bullet) produced by the powder also exits at right-angles to the muzzle. Therefore, the recoil force is lowered. The remaining length of barrel provides a little extra mass, thereby absorbing slightly more of the forces. You could get the same effect by loading your ammo to a lower velocity, or by using lighter commercial loads.

The other benefit that porting supposedly provides is that upward-facing ports reduce muzzle jump. Lots of folks swear up and down that it makes a difference. I've never worked out the force vectors, but it's hard to believe that the ejecta of the mass of, say, 20 grains of powder, could have a noticeable effect on the force imparted by a 240 grain bullet, even at near-right-angles to the force. It's a slightly different story in cartridges with much larger charge weight in proportion to bullet weight.

What I do know from standing next to shooters with ported handguns is that the report is noticeably louder, the muzzle flash is right in his line of sight, and as you can imagine, the ports spit sparks and other searing hot junk in directions other than downrange.

Sorry in advance to those of you who may be offended. I just hate porting. Cast lead bullets are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. I think that anything that makes a gun unfit to shoot cast lead bullets is an affront to God.

[Paul5388]

I guess I'm sorta qualified to insert a comment or two, since I have 2 ported barrels and 1 non-ported for my 744. One can never tell for sure, with the weight of a DW being over 64 ounces with an 8" VH barrel and shroud, but it sure seems like there isn't as much muzzle rise with the ports.  Given a certain amount of escaping gases at a right angle to the normal direction of barrel movement, there has to be a degree of reduction of barrel rise.  The orifice effect in raising velocity is also going to affect energy in the downward direction, being based partially on the square of velocity.  The faster the gases escape, the greater the downward thrust.

 I don't know that recoil is a problem with that much mass and really don't think that was the intent of porting.

[DWTim]

I don't know that recoil is a problem with that much mass and really don't think that was the intent of porting.

I know, but that's how they advertise it: http://www.magnaport.com/hgun.html

Traditional Mag-na-porting of a handgun consists of two trapezoidal ports cut into the barrel approximately 1/2 inch from the muzzle. These ports are placed at approximately 35 to 45 degree angles. For the shooter this translates into a reduction of perceived recoil of 15 to 20%!

[/i]

EDIT: Paul, would it be possible for you to post some close up pictures of the barrel and shroud? The ports don't show up in the pictures from the other thread.

[Paul5388]

I'll work on it and post to the pictures thread.  It may take a while to get it done, but I'll see about a shot of the barrel and shroud compared to the non-ported barrel and shroud on my 715.

Surprisingly, I had time to get that picture done and posted on the pictures thread. 

[DWTim]

Thanks much, the porting is quite clear in the pictures. This is exactly the type I've seen on DWs.

So there you go, original poster.

[RollTide]

I absolutely recommend AGAINST using the old Dan Wesson "Power Port" system.  It is only minimally effective in reducing muzzle rise and there is no appreciable difference in recoil.  You WILL get a barrel and shroud STUCK on your gun unless you meticulously clean ALL fouling from the exterior of the barrel and the interior of the shroud after EVERY shooting outing.  If you use lead bullets in the gun, you could get it stuck in ONE outing.  I own guns with the old Power Ports and with the new compensator, and I would NEVER use the Power Ports on any of my guns.  It is just too much trouble for little or now real return.  If you need a compensator that works, go with the new style compensator as seen on the Alaskan Guide Special .  You will be glad you did. 


Roll Tide

[Paul5388]

Tide,

When the ported barrel is what you have, that's what you use or retire the gun.  However, I don't think I want to retire it, so I'll look into some possibilities for ensuring the carbon fouling will maybe stay soft enough to allow the shroud to come off.  It may be necessary to "fog" the shroud ports with a good lube and let it sit a while before trying to remove the shroud?  OTOH, a coat of high temperature "never seize" just ahead of the frame threads may help too.

[El Hombre]

Tide,

When the ported barrel is what you have, that's what you use or retire the gun. 

You can get an unported barrel & use it in your ported slide. That's a much better, and cheaper alternative than retiring the gun. Barrels (only) can be picked up pretty cheap. Even from CZ/DW.

[Paul5388]

I understand that Hombre, but I already have a barrel, so it needs to be made functional.

These online forums are similar to the Army's PS magazine, without the cartoons, where answers to problems can be shared that will make equipment last longer and function better.  So, I just figure no one has shared the solution yet or they haven't figured the solution out yet, but there is a solution, besides buying a new barrel. 

[RollTide]

I guess I think the same as Hombre on this one.  Buy a new barrel for less that $50 new or less than $25 on ebay and be done with the problem.  A couple cans of fix-it spray will probably cost you that much.  It is not the threads that you have to worry about, it is the fouling that fills the little space between the barrel and shroud right at the muzzle.  I have had one barrel stuck ( I bought it used that way).  After going through that process once, I figure my time is worth a lot more to me that the cost of a new barrel, but if you have the gun and the time, try your luck.

Best regards,

Roll Tide

[Paul5388]

Tide,

You know we have Wallie World just like you do, so "fix it" spray will be cheap!   

Of course, I think the main solution is going to be in the powder selection.  I might have to refrain from using Unique and the other powders that burn pretty dirty.  Lil'Gun and SR 4756 would probably be a step in the right direction.

[David Carey]

Rolltide I thought since you were pinning this at the top It needed some photos. Here are photos of the factory comp. system.







Dave

[xtratoy]

I've had a DW744 for ages and haven't had a propblem getting the shroud off when using the ported barrel. I use it mostly with jacketed bullets and have the unported barrel if I am using cast bullets. I have shot upwards of 300 rounds cast bullets through the ported barrel and didn't have a problem removing the shroud. It was tighter than usual, yet still came off. There was more cleaning of the port area in the shroud needed too.

[SUSQUASH]

Xtratoy, I came up with the same solutiion that you did.  I have two barrels for my 6 inch 445 Supermag.  I use the ported barrel for jacketed bullets only and use the unported barrel for my cast loads.  I made the mistake of using the ported barrel with  lead bullets and my friendly gunsmith who is a Wesson affectionado had a devil of a time getting it off.  That is when he told me to buy an unported barrel for cast loads.  I have used this 445 Supermag as bear insurance in Alaska and have a lot more confidence in a well loaded 300 grain hard cast bullet getting penetration through a Griz if push comes to shove.  The load easily penetrates even 6" of oak.

Don't retire that gun just buy an extra unported barrel.

[Tom C.]

I have a 20 yr. old DW744 8VH. It came with a ported barrel. I never used it. I got several unported barrels and used them instead. I have now rebarreled it with a 6” light barrel, without porting. I shoot it with the same full power loads I used for silhouette shooting and I can’t see why I would want it ported. Recoil isn’t bad. Even with the light 6” barrel, it must weigh 56-58 oz.

[Waldo Pepper]

Like TomC I have a 44 magnum that I now have both ported and unported barrels for and the ported didn't give any problem removing when I shot with it testing (30 rds) it out. I will say not much different in muzzle rise and I also only shot jacked factory ammo, so I have pulled the barrel and cleaned it and put it in storage. Now the S&W 686 that has the Power Port factory option does help in muzzle rise, but only enough that it is not a factor in plinking, maybe in competition it would. From what I now know I would never buy a ported gun for general use, both of mine were have to take it or buy something else and I could not pass the 744 or the S&W 686 because they were priced so good I had to buy the gun.