why no handi rifle barrel on a pardner frame?

[Gallahad]

I'm wondering if the frame is weaker around the fireing pin on the shotgun frames or what.  nef says you cant put a rifle barrel on the shotgun frames, but you CAN put a shotgun barrel on their handi rifle frames.  Why is this?  Anybody ever tried it?  I know you can buy rife barrel inserts from other companies that are safe to use in a pardner, so why not a rife barrel?  Thanks for any help!

[quickdtoo]

That subject has been discussed before...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=89787

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=26264

From the NEF/H&R Centerfire FAQ...

Can I put a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame?

Rifle barrels in general cannot be put a shotgun frame since the shotgun frame is not heat treated to handle the pressure. Since rifle frames are treated to use higher pressures, the lower pressure shotgun barrels don't present a hazard to the firearm and/or user as the inverse does.

The difference between SB1 and SB2 frames...

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=80979

[Cookiemann]

YEP...WHAT HE SAID!

[hubel458]

Ok, I just got a 12ga Ultra slug gun, to do some load developement with our 12GA FH case shortened
to fit chamber.We have thread in Big Bore forum here about that cartridge,12GA From Hell..
Slug gun barrel is heavy and looks like
rifling was hammer forged. Is this so?..
If it is hammer forged does that mean it is higher strength than regular shotgun barrels.
Barrel is shorter than I like, who makes
longer ones for this gun? Can't get much from NEF
but they did say reciever, which same as ten
gauge, is investment cast, like Ruger rifles.
Does anyone know what they test the 10 and 12ga
at?Need info from you experts. Thanks in
advance-Ed.

[quickdtoo]

SAAMI MAP for the 10ga is only 11kpsi, far below the pressure of rifle calibers. Even the .410 has a higher MAP at 13.5kpsi, and the 12ga 3½" is 14kpsi.

http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellk.htm#pressure

Barrel strength isn't the issue, it's the frame strength, SB2 frames are proofed at pressures exceeding 70kpsi according to Gordon at H&R, dunno what the proofing pressures are for the SB1 frame, but they aren't heat treated like the SB2 frames are according to him which is only part of the difference. You can see the difference between the SB1 and SB2 frames in the Centerfire FAQ and Help sticky pics, the physical appearance is different.

There are no aftermarket makers of barrels for H&R firearms, Marts Custom used to but they're out of business.

Tim

[hubel458]

Tim-The tag says the Ultra slug guns are SB2,
both 10 & 12 gauge. Is this True?
What cartridge was tested at 72k in
a SB2 frame? I wouldn't think shotgun.Ed

[Busta]

Ed,

There are 2 different SB2 frames, the SB2 center fire rifle frame and the SB2 shotgun frame (10 ga & 12ga Ultra Slug Hunter). I don't know why they didn't name one a SB3 frame or something else but that is the way it is. They are not the same frame though, that is for certain, but they use the same letters and numbers. :roll:  :?  I guess it is that way just to confuse everyone.

[quickdtoo]

He didn't elaborate on cartridge, just the pressure the frame was tested to.

Dunno about the SB2 designation on the slug gun frame, but they won't fit rifle barrels to it, so there must be other differences.

Tim

[hubel458]

Tim-I tested it and it is hard like ones for
rifles.Investment cast are easy to get more
strength with.The difference that I see mainly
 is firing pin size.I read other forums
and Q & A section. I think it will hold
17-20k loads in our super strong cases,
that for example I fired one 36 times, without
sizing bottom half, and cases fell out,
in a Savage 210 bolt 12ga.
When sectioned showed no thinning, nd
that was with 25-35k pressures.Thanks for info.Ed.

[quickdtoo]

Ed, as Busta pointed out, the SB2 slug gun frame is different than the SB2 rifle frame, I've only seen one, it had the same matte finish as the rimfires, not the gloss blued look of the rifle SB2 frames. Another difference, I think :roll: , is the 12ga is a bored out 10ga barrel which is bigger in diameter than the rifle barrels, hence the reason they can't/won't fit rifle barrels to it, even if it has the higher strength which I doubt it does, it's the same material as the SB1 frame, just not the same heat treatment as rifle frames.....if that makes any sense, just making a  sorta uneducated guess!!

Tim

[hubel458]

Tim--I got different person at NEF and they
said 10 & 12 Gage barrels are hammer forged,
and that SB2 shotgun 10 & 12ga are treated actions.
They didn't know how hard they were treated to,
 but I will find someone to test hardness and
then can figure tensile strength.I had to
grind a little on it as I am fitting
a heavy thumbhole stock, and it seems as hard as
Savage 210 and my Ruger 77..Ed

[quickdtoo]

Ed, sounds like you have a good handle on things, have fun, but be safe!! :wink: Did ya by any chance get the name of the person you talked to?

Thx

Tim

[hubel458]

Tim-No I didn't. Gal I talked to seemed to be
reading info from a list or chart.My
one machine shop guy says minimum heat treat
hardness will increase strength about 50%,
maximum treatment to level where steel has greatest
tensile strength, about 42, gives about 100% increase in strength.Too hard he said makes it
brittle and easy to crack..Ed.

[hubel458]

Here is Ultra with thumbhole stock I added,
 weighted to 15 lbs.My case shortened to
3.15 works. Little testing has speed up
to 1700 fps, 600 gr hard slug.Should
get over 2000.Ed