You Lie!

[billy_56081]

What do you guys think of Rep. Joe Wilsons outburst at Hip Hop Hitlers speach last night. From the look in his face, he didn't have a response on his teleprompter for this one. And the look on old Nasty Pelosi's face was as they say in the commercial, "priceless". I think the fine Rep. deserved a bit more applause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9lk6UXPqbw

[searlock]

whereas the south carolina republican may have spoken the truth, his comment will do little to fix the problems with the three broken branches of our government. i say the government can't be fixed because the american people are so split in their ethics, morals,stupididy. jeff foxyworthy said you can't fix stupid. and our constitution can't protect us from our own stupidity. since it can't be fixed the only thing left is to shut it down either by stopping spending on everything that is not a necessity or for a large portion of the people just staying home, not going to work for a week or two. remember that the fbi profile for a serial killer is almost the same as the profile of a politician.

[gypsyman]

I think your seeing the future. Rep's like Wilson know what's going on. They have talked with their constituents. They know the agenda. Their having a hard time showing respect for the office of presidency, when the man in that office, shows no respect for the constitution, or the country. I'm wondering if you'll see an all out brawl someday, like some of the banana republic's in S.America. gypsyman

[n/a]

It was absolutely appropriate and I am glad he did it. It was the right thing to do.

[Dee]

First of all it was Ron White whom said: "You can't fix stupid", let us not misquote as the politicians do.

Joe Wilson of South Carolina was speaking out with "You Lie" to "THE NEW LINCOLN" in reference to the ILLEGAL ALIEN issue on health coverage. While I AGREE WITH WILSON on this issue, and say that it is about time someone called a "spade a shovel" one must also REMEMBER, that ALMOST NONE OF THE REPUBLICANS, have done anything to both stop illegals from coming across the border, do anything to get them "back across", OR, stop them from pilfering our emergency services systems, i.e. Hospital Emergency Rooms.
Although I agree that "THE NEW LINCOLN" is indeed a liar, so are MOST REPUBLICANS. They have been in office entirely too long, and have slept with the special interest groups lobbyists, padding their own pockets. They also (the Republicans) WILL DO NOTHING, AND HAVE DONE NOTHING, on the issue Wilson spoke out about.
Up until a couple years ago the REPUBLICANS were in charge of the House of Representatives, the REPUBLICANS were in charge of the Senate, the REPUBLICANS were in the White House, and the REPUBLICANS REFUSED to address these issues that Wilson is speaking out against.
HOW QUICKLY AND EASILY WE FORGET!
The Republicans NOW speak out against the Democrat, not because they disagree, but in an effort to REGAIN POWER. They are now the step child. It has been changing back and forth from Democrat to Republican since the two party systems' inception. HISTORICAL FACT!
You REALLY WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT? VOTE DIFFERENT!

[williamlayton]

I don't think he should have said it. I think talking is fine but doing would be a  better answer. Galvinizing the opposition when you have them looking at things differently is not a good thing.
Blessings

[n/a]

That's a good point, but I see it a bit differently. Saying it so publicly amplified the people who went to the town halls to oppose this. I think that galvanizing the opposition is the final effect of this, and it weakens the proponents.

I also recall the likes of Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton rolling their eyes and yawning theatrically when GW Bush gave speeches. Sure they were silent, but that was purely disrespectful. This new gesture was a gesture of genuine opposition, which fits right into Congress and the way it should work.

[n/a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxHKSHvMRWE

Note that Obama called people speaking the truth liars before the shout was made.

[Land_Owner]

I wonder...how many times has Pelosi had her face carved?  What a Witch!

[Skunk]

I wonder...how many times has Pelosi had her face carved?  What a Witch!

LOL, Land Owner, it looks like she may have gotten another face lift.

[n/a]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw9lQT1Ark4&NR=1

Another good thing about it was that it got a "boo" reaction from members of the house, and it seemed in the context of the speech that they were reacting against something Obama said.

[rio grande]

So what is the truth then?
Where in the proposed legislation does it say one thing or the other?
They are calling each other liars - where's the proof?

[Dee]

So what is the truth then?
Where in the proposed legislation does it say one thing or the other?
They are calling each other liars - where's the proof?

Your point is well taken, at least by me rio grande. It is BUSINESS AS USUAL. The side IN power, belittles the side OUT OF of power, and the side out of power belittles the side IN power.
Both call each other liars and the opposing side public supporters cheer their prospective sides.
It is theatrics at it's best, and will never change because the voter will not change. Merely complain about eroding rights.

[n/a]

Where's the proof? Read the bill. It says citizens give up their options to the government and bureaucrats decide who gets health care (and how much of it). It also says that since everybody will have to be covered, then insurance companies will have to abandon the risk model that insurance companies depend on and switch to a marketing model where people in good health are enticed as customers and people in bad health are encouraged to find other insurance companies by giving them bad service.  It also says that you will pay a very high price to pay for other people's health care. It's right there in black and white, it just takes time to go through it all.

The trouble here for a lot of people is that they have been sucked into the pattern of short term thinking that is characteristic of congress. The reality almost never follows the political debate. It amazes me how few people have caught onto that behavior, even as older adults.

[rio grande]

I did some quick research, looks like there's nothing in the proposal that specifically includes illegals, and nothing that specifically excludes them.  Proposed addenda that specifically excludes them and calls for citizenship verification was rejected which certainly should raise some eyebrows.
And that since Obama's agenda will now move on to 'immigration reform' - probably amnesty - millions of current illegals will then get the subsidized health care.
They cover themselves pretty good, don't they?  
You know, I support changes to the current health care mess. But in no way can I trust the current troop of monkeys, of BOTH parties, in Washington DC to do anything about it except make it WORSE.
sad, sad, sad....

[n/a]

rio grande:

The bill gives discretion to the agencies who administer the plan. These are government agencies. Illegal Mexican aliens are a constituency of the Democrat party. The illegals will get coverage because of the discretion given to the agencies and the political favoritism implied by political realities. That is the way these things work. Bills seldom explicitly say anything controversial. The effect is in the loop holes.

As with other health care things:
1) When the democrats are in power, the agencies will dole money out to whoever they want
2) When the republicans are in power and try to cut the waste, the democrats always mount an effective public relations campaign against the cruel and heartless republican monsters. This happens all the time. There are virtually no exceptions.

[crustaceous]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

[45-70.gov]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

he  will just  make them all  ''legal alliens''  and  buy their vote with  your money

if  wilson was  in  the right

WHY  DID  HE APPOLOGISE??

 i am glad  he had the guts  to do  it  no one els did

then  he undid  the good  he  did  with an appology

can  he recend the appology...they are ALL  wishy washy anyway

[rio grande]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

That's very good, facts.
That's what I'm looking for.
But it still doesn't address the verification issue, and it doesn't take into consideration a possible 'amnesty' for millions, which would allow 'family re-unification - adding more millions -  - that is probably down the road.
Somehow I'm not reassured.
And, heck, I support health care reform!

[rio grande]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

he  will just  make them all  ''legal alliens''  and  buy their vote with  your money

if  wilson was  in  the right

WHY  DID  HE APPOLOGISE??

 i am glad  he had the guts  to do  it  no one els did

then  he undid  the good  he  did  with an appology

can  he recend the appology...they are ALL  wishy washy anyway

He could apologize for his apology
What a wienie....just like most all of 'em.
Except Ron Paul.

[Cabin4]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

I explained this on another topic here. The Bill says as you state "undocumented" workers. This is a status ONLY given to non-American citizens. So what the hell is wrong with you? All a Non-American citizen needs to do to become "Documented" is go down to your local federal building and apply for citizenship. Now you are "documented" and are elligible for free health care. Since nearly every single one of our major population centers are sanctuary cities, illegals can become "Documented" without any fear of being deported or even turned over to the Feds or other states if there is an open arrest warrant for them!

The fact is obama is a bold face liar on this point. They are playing with these non-citizen catergories so dumb people think illegals are not covered. Its a farse an you are going to pay for it in higher taxes and lower levels of health care.

You really are just one of the sheep.

[rio grande]

HR 3200 Sec 246.

Page 143 for those keeping score at home, Lines 3 to 7:

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
not lawfully present in the United States.

That should do it, a solid fact that undocumented aliens are not covered in the actual bill being debated by grown ups.

In fact, they made a whole section just to prove the point.

I explained this on another topic here. The Bill says as you state "undocumented" workers. This is a status ONLY given to non-American citizens. So what the hell is wrong with you? All a Non-American citizen needs to do to become "Documented" is go down to your local federal building and apply for citizenship. Now you are "documented" and are elligible for free health care. Since nearly every single one of our major population centers are sanctuary cities, illegals can become "Documented" without any fear of being deported or even turned over to the Feds or other states if there is an open arrest warrant for them!

The fact is obama is a bold face liar on this point. They are playing with these non-citizen catergories so dumb people think illegals are not covered. Its a farse an you are going to pay for it in higher taxes and lower levels of health care.

You really are just one of the sheep.

Cabin4 makes an excellent point.

http://thedcshuffle.com/political-euphemism-glossary/undocumented-workers/

"“Undocumented worker” is one of a host of euphemisms for people in the U.S. who do not fit the definition of a resident alien or a citizen. There is a lot of confusion over what is the proper term for this class of people in the country partly because of the intensely charged political atmosphere surrounding them and because there is no legally defined term in federal law for their status. Even the federal government is confused because I found at least 11 different terms being used to describe the same group of people. One study done by Homeland Security refers to the same group of people as undocumented immigrants, illegal immigrants, illegal aliens, and refers to another document about “unauthorized immigrants” all within six pages."

"Undocumented Aliens" win one here - so what's to keep some rogue Federal Judge from adding them to the healthcare plan later on?

 http://www.nixonpeabody.com/publications_detail3.asp?ID=2128

"A federal circuit court of appeals has ruled that undocumented workers, including illegal aliens, are employees under federal labor law. These workers can even vote in a union."

[45-70.gov]

every argument here is a mute point

if the ones  that  SWORE to uphold the constitution  read  it

and followed  the 10th ammendment


the fact  we are  duscussung the details  of how to procede  and violate the constitution

MEANS   WE  HAVE  LOST

[Cabin4]

if the ones  that  SWORE to uphold the constitution 

and followed  the 10th ammendment


MEANS   WE  HAVE  LOST

How true and this is why obama is a bold face liar on all points surrounding this issue. He took an oath and is violating it. He lied to the American people last night.

[gypsyman]

It's starting to fall apart. Their getting caught in lies all over the place. Acorn has got more of it's members in illegal acts. I thought it might last till next summer. I 'm not sure if it'll last till the end of the month.  gypsyman

[n/a]

The only reason that the "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS." is in there is because there was enough complaining to put it there. Keep in mind that the bill is changing. No matter how much wordsmithing you do on a bill that size, there will always be a way around the law.

[billy_56081]

Whether it state it will or will not cover illegals is a mute point. It will cover them!


 Obviously any of you who believe it won't cover illegals are too ignorant of the real world to discuss this. I live and work in the real world and see everyday the folly of the law that makes it illegal to employ illegal aliens. Wake up silly kids their are millions of illegals employed in buisinesses today even though it is illegal to employ them.


E verify is a joke. Last week I was in a buisiness where a large percentage of the workforce is illegals. What is even better is they work under false I'd and ss numbers. They claim head of household and a large amount of dependents and pay no taxes. Which is also illegal.


I posted the video link because the looks and reaction was hillarious to me. I don't believe one side or the other is worth a tinkers damn, I just like seeing them fight. I hope the divide and retoric even goes to violence between the. 2 side. I hate them all and want to see them all fail. 

[rockbilly]

My question, WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD. WE THE PEOPLE, BUY INTO ANY PROGRAM THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PREZ, CONGRESS, THE SENATE AND THEIR FAMILIES? 

[jimster]

They get free health care now...due to a law already in place that says the hospitals must treat them.

This will not go away....and of course...amnesty will solve it all anyway.

So to the original question  "What do you guys think of Rep. Joe Wilsons outburst at Hip Hop Hitlers speach last night."

I think I took it in stride....it did not bother me for some reason.  Maybe that is wrong...but I'm just being truthful, it did not bother me.  At least he didn't throw his shoe....

[Cabin4]

They get free health care now...due to a law already in place that says the hospitals must treat them.

So to the original question  "What do you guys think of Rep. Joe Wilsons outburst at Hip Hop Hitlers speach last night."

Good for him, thats what I think. He told the truth becasue zero is a liar.