Author Topic: 30-30 Elk Rifle?  (Read 3589 times)

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Offline hendog

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30-30 Elk Rifle?
« on: February 28, 2013, 10:46:29 am »
From reading some posts about using a 30-30 for elk hunting you would think a 30-30 is a squirrel gun. Last year's  Elk hunt I found all the fresh sign in the timber. I never did see a bull but, my .308 with it's 24" barrel was a little cumbersome in the woods. Thinking of using my Win 94AE 30-30 with Hornady 160gn  lever ammo this year. Am I immoral,crazy or just nuts?

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30-30 Elk Rifle?
« on: February 28, 2013, 10:46:29 am »

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 12:04:58 pm »
If you hit`em right and within accepted range of the 30-30 should be meat on the ground!
One of the quickest and "DRT' shots I ever saw happen on an elk was a running shot made with a 30-30 Lever Action on about a 65-75 yard shot here in Colorado!
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Online Dee

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 01:22:39 pm »
My 3030 and I got together in 1958. I was 8, and it was brand new. I wouldn't hesitate my friend. Elk are no harder to kill now, than they were 100 years ago before ballistic coefficient charts and such were invented to help sell you a gun you didn't need. Happy huntin.
Common sense tells you if a couple of modified sticks and a piece of string will kill an elk a 3030 is more than enough. Compare the thickness of a deer rib and an elk rib. Hmmmm
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Offline cabledad

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 07:27:28 pm »
I have killed 8 elk in the last 30 years with a7 mag none were over 100 yards most were 50 yards are less,yea I would not be scared to hunt elk with a 30 30.A good caliber.

Offline Ranch13

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 08:47:48 pm »
. Am I immoral,crazy or just nuts?
;D Well the answer to that would depend on who you ask :o  Ask someone with real world experience with the 30-30 and elk and they'll tell you no. Ask someone with no to little experience and they'll say yes.
Pictures speak volumes and here's the neighbor kid a few years ago on the first morning of season here with his 30-30 and his elk tag all filled out.

 
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 08:52:14 pm »
i'll say right up front i've never elk hunted.
[size=78%]a guy i used to work with was from[/size]

western colorado. we were talking one
day at the noontime meal about hunting
and the conversation got around to elk hunting.
i told him i'd never been and didn't have
a big rifle. he looked at me funny and
asked what i meant. he explained to me
that all the hands on the ranch he was
from and around used 30/30 lever guns
and .308's  with whatever ammo could
be bought cheapest. they didn't try to
make 500 yard shots. most were shot
at 100 + - yards.
needing a cannon is a magazine tale.


Offline Flynmoose

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 09:06:36 pm »
The 30-30 has taken large numbers of Moose and Caribou in Alaska, probably OK for Elk with good shot placement.
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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 09:24:03 pm »
Somewhere on the worldwide whacky web there 's hi res footage of a chap taking a large buffalo at about 100 yards with a 30-30 using Corbon 190 gr ammo. I think elk with factory 170s would be very effective on elk and in relative soft cast I would imagine it very effective out to 150 yards.

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Offline Lonegun1894

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 06:31:03 am »
I have not killed an elk, but have been VERY close to them many times.  I wouldn't hesitate to use a .30-30 with a 170+gr bullet, and would prefer cast if it was me, but I have been using cast in my .30-30s for years, so have faith in them.  Anyway, having taken many deer and hogs with .30-30s, and a handful of cattle, and having seen the actual performance and penetration the .30-30 provides, I'd say place the bullet where it needs to go and enjoy the meat that's going to be on the ground very near where it was when you fired. 

Offline geobru

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 10:44:27 pm »
I have killed my share of elk over the years and have always used a 308.  I am sure that a 30-30 could have done the job on the ones I shot.  I never used a 30-30 because of an experience my dad had in the late 40's.  He shot a huge 7x7 3 times in the front shoulder with a Winchester 1894 rifle. There was no indication that he hit the bull other than it changed direction. Chances are that if he had been the only one around, the bull would have died from those wounds.  Since it was still on its feet, moving around, his partner shot his 30-06 and dropped the bull with a shot that hit the horn about 4" from the skull and knocked the bull out.  Dad then shot it in the neck to finish it off.  Had it not been for the lucky shot with the 30-06, someone else could have shot the bull, dropped it, and claimed it, even though it was mortally wounded.
The take home lesson to me is that the 30-30 will kill an elk, but it isn't necessarily the best round out there to do that job. 

Offline T.R.

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2013, 05:31:02 am »
30-30 is a keeper!
 
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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 06:05:32 am »
A bow hunt for elk is a challenge. An elk hunt with a 3030 is using a marginally effective weapon. I'm sure that makes sense to someone, but not to me.
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Offline RevJim

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 07:05:00 am »
 Its still used here in Utah by older men ( those who know where they hide in the timber) and Teens on the Youth hunt. Now I see more teens using 7mm08 and such. Just like bowhunting in the sense that you have to get close to maximize your weapon of choice. I could have used a 30-30 on the first two cow elk I shot, ( 130 steps on the first one, 200yds on the second but I could have stalked closer on her anyhow)  the last one was high up on a ridge in a mob of about 30 head (250yds).  Would I advise someone to come out west and use a 30-30 on an elk hunt, not really, unless they just wanted the challenge of course. I've seen people who were frustrated after a few days of humping these hills, end up taking shots they wouldn't normally do...that elk becomes a Holy Grail, ha. Lots of wounded elk result...which no one wants. I think its better if they bring the 30-30 for a second rifle, one they can use if they find the elk in the timber, it will work fine except for the Elmer Keith "Raking Shot". ha I hedged my bet long ago with a 35 Whelen Improved and Barnes X...they will shoot through about anything from any angle! But the 30-30 "package"....that fast, trim levergun...ahhh that's close range wonder!

Offline FPH

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 08:45:13 am »
I know nothing of hunting back East.  However, if you are going to drop big bucks coming out West, paying for an outfitter and an out of state license, and taking off time , why bring a marginal rifle.  Darn if you won't see your trophy( if you see an ELK) at 300 yds and you have a 30-30 in your hands.  Why not a .300 Win mag.  You spent all that money on the hunt and you will probably take a shot, nine times out of ten, wound an ELK, and go home empty handed.  Why?

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30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 01:16:24 pm »
Well , right rifle for right terrain is a very valid point. Even scoped (horror of horrors) a 30-30 is utterly incapable as a 300 yard rifle. And while Teddy Roosevelt described it as "a fine small bore express ", it is clearly a timber rifle today. I am very confident with aperture sights and a 30-30 out to 150 yards , though most shots on deer I have in the Northeast are under 100 yards. Beyond that, bolt rifles with a little more velocity are better suited.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2013, 01:55:43 pm »
From reading some posts about using a 30-30 for elk hunting you would think a 30-30 is a squirrel gun. Last year's  Elk hunt I found all the fresh sign in the timber. I never did see a bull but, my .308 with it's 24" barrel was a little cumbersome in the woods. Thinking of using my Win 94AE 30-30 with Hornady 160gn  lever ammo this year. Am I immoral,crazy or just nuts?
Two years ago I wnr to Montana to help a friend with his elk hunt, I pushed two elk past a kid armed with a 30-30 and the 160 grain bullets.  he shot both cows as they ran past him.  i later found both dead about 80 yards from where he shot them and about 20 yards apart from each other.  It works.  it is not hard to kill an elk with propper bullet placement.
A few years earlier I went and was hiking all over the hills and valley in some dense timber with my 338 Win mag.  Myu scope is an adjustable objective, after that hunt I purchased a 375H&H with a fixed 4 power scope for elk in the woods.  The 375 is not needed but I wanted something that would knock them down right there and still be able to reach out 200 yards.  If your shot s will be close and you feel confidant the 30-30 will do the trick then use it.  I like to be over gunned rather than under gunned.  and yes i could have just changeds the scope on the 338WM. 

Offline FPH

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2013, 02:02:59 pm »
As I said, a 30- 30 within it's parameters is fine.  How many 80 yds shot do people get the opportunity to make?....Not many.  A 200-300 yd shot is more typical out here in NM and CO.  A 30-30 does not cut it.  Why chance wounding an animal.

Offline FPH

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2013, 02:40:11 pm »
By the way, I'm talkin about taking a trophy bull during centerfire rifle season.  I don't know many people who come out here from the East, pay a min of 2,500.00 to an outfitter, pay another 576.00 or so for an out of state lic. and then look to fill the freezer with a cow.  These herd bulls are wary and spooky.

Offline hendog

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2013, 09:49:31 am »
"A 200-300 yd shot is more typical out here in NM and CO.  A 30-30 does not cut it"

Here in western Washington Elk only come out of the timber to feed at night. Most Elk here are shot under 50 yards in the dark timber.
 

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2013, 10:01:52 am »
  I found it very interesting that this question came in today..   Justthis morning I went to WEBCRAWLER search engine and punched in > big game I shot with my 30/30 <...and here's what I got..photos of  of 30/30s, many showing game taken with 30/30s.
           http://www.webcrawler.com/search/images?fcoid=417&fcop=topnav&fpid=2&q=big+game+I+shot+with+my+30%2F30&ql=&ss=t
 
  Just click through a few pages....I saw deer, elk, caribou, moose, bear and hogs..I guess nobody told those big game animals they weren't supposed to fall down and die!.
 
  Only thing I can add is that with my experience with the 30/30...I would use the WW Powerpoints or Coreloks..
   I would be concerned with possibly too much fragmentation with those plastic points...but that's just my   $.02
 
   Just remember; the 30/30 @100 yards is the same as some of the favorite hot rods @ 250 yards..  Just get in a bit closer..perhaps the 30/30 just requires a better hunter to do the same job! ;) :D .
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Offline hoytcanon

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2013, 11:32:24 am »
A .30/30 is not a "marginal" gun... it can and has killed every big game animal in North America, and done so cleanly... a marginal shot is a marginal shot regardless of caliber... so if you want to, go ahead and use one and make no apology to any man... as always stay within the limits of your weapons ability AND your ability... far too many hunters choose a superior weapon and make inferior choices with regard to their own limitations as a shooter... 99% of wounded animals are NOT wounded by a caliber... they are wounded by a shooter making a poor decision at the time of the shot. 
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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2013, 11:43:23 am »
There was a TV program on the other day where the "host" is attempting to shoot a large number of NA game animals with a 30-30.  I think he was after Grizzly Bear in the episode I saw.  He didn't get a shot though.  Maybe that's a good thing!  ;)
 
But I think they had a checklist of what he had killed.
 
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Offline FPH

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2013, 11:59:27 am »
A .30/30 is not a "marginal" gun... it can and has killed every big game animal in North America, and done so cleanly... a marginal shot is a marginal shot regardless of caliber... so if you want to, go ahead and use one and make no apology to any man... as always stay within the limits of your weapons ability AND your ability... far too many hunters choose a superior weapon and make inferior choices with regard to their own limitations as a shooter... 99% of wounded animals are NOT wounded by a caliber... they are wounded by a shooter making a poor decision at the time of the shot. 

I agree that with in  it's proper limitations the 30-30 is not a marginal caliber.  Unfortunately , there are too many marginal shots taken with the caliber.

Online Dee

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2013, 02:22:11 pm »
It would seem that in the last 50 years ability with the same rifle, hunting prowess, and back then common knowledge of the game, has been replaced with belief that more power is what it takes. I can remember the day when if you had 1 22, 1 shotgun, and Winchester or marlin 3030 you could hunt anything. The 3030 was never consider marginal. You knew your personal limits. I've made many shots beyond 300 yards with my 3030.
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Offline hoytcanon

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2013, 08:15:21 am »
I agree that with in  it's proper limitations the 30-30 is not a marginal caliber.  Unfortunately , there are too many marginal shots taken with the caliber.
A "poor excuse for a hunter" is a "poor excuse for a hunter" and an "unethical shooter" is an "unethical shooter" no matter what weapon they are holding... I would rather see one of these sorts holding a gun that they KNOW to be inferior, than holding a gun that they have convinced themselves and all their friends is a "1000 yard shooter"... which one do you think they are more inclined to take marginal shots with??? Money can buy a 1000 yard gun (6.5-284, ,280 AI, .338 Lapua etc...), but money cannot buy the skill to place a bullet consistently in the vitals under hunting conditions... especially when the shooter is pushing the limit; 300+ yard shooting takes considerable skill... and 500+ yard shooting (under hunting conditions) can be performed by less than 1% of hunters... but tell that to Bubba, who spent $5,000 on his "shoot a mile rig" and has already wounded two sheep (or elk, or deer or bears etc...) and is attempting his third 700+ yard shot... weapons do not compensate for hunting skill and "pushing the envelope" can happen as easily with a .300 WM as it can with a .30/30 (and I believe more easily). JMO.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2013, 07:17:57 am »
Most of my deer are killed with a 336 in 30-30... the rest fall to muzzleloader, Mosin, and bow.


I've never hunted elk, though I'd like to. I'd take the 30-30, if I expected sub-200 yard opportunities. But then, I'm an optimist: if someone will pay the freight, I'll demonstrate how effective the Marlin is on Cape Buffalo!
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2013, 07:42:51 am »

If someone will pay the freight, I'll demonstrate how effective the Marlin is on Cape Buffalo!
Is that to get your body back?  Why would you want to put you PH in Danger?  Have you not watched any videos of hunting a Cape Buffalo and the amount of lead they can absorb in the 375 to 470 NE and still run around? 
If a 300 grain bullet at 2600 FPS is not doing it with a solid hit in the boiler room is not doing it, you think a bullet half that weight is going to do a better job?  Oh and the bullet you want to use is 1/3 the diameter with less of a chance to hit vital parts that bleed.   

Offline FPH

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2013, 08:06:40 am »

If someone will pay the freight, I'll demonstrate how effective the Marlin is on Cape Buffalo!
Is that to get your body back?  Why would you want to put you PH in Danger?  Have you not watched any videos of hunting a Cape Buffalo and the amount of lead they can absorb in the 375 to 470 NE and still run around? 
If a 300 grain bullet at 2600 FPS is not doing it with a solid hit in the boiler room is not doing it, you think a bullet half that weight is going to do a better job?  Oh and the bullet you want to use is 1/3 the diameter with less of a chance to hit vital parts that bleed.   

Show me the PH that would allow you to use the Marlin in .30-.30...........that's what I thought.

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2013, 08:09:42 am »
I'd chip in for that hunt. Provided he took the animal solely on his own with no outside help. Just to prove up on his 336 claim of course.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 30-30 Elk Rifle?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2013, 08:22:31 am »
To be honest if you read about Africa.  Many Cape buffalo have been killed with the 303Brit.  and even one in the Last Ivory hunter with a 22Hornet.  But these are eating animals not full sized trophy. 
And yes the 303 brit is not much more than the 30-30.  With a similar sized and weight bullet.  but if you read about early hunting the buffalo wins about 20% of the time.