Author Topic: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?  (Read 15439 times)

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Offline buffalohunter

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2006, 12:07:15 pm »
I have a BLR in .358 Win, also an Encore pistol in .358 Win. In my opinion it is the best medium bore cartridge available. In my Encore it will shoot into a 1 1/2 inches every day, pushes a 225 grain bullet to about 2300 fps. As you can tell I am a BIG fan of the .358, I guess since it did not say magnum people wouldn't buy it.
I have killed two caribou, two moose, a black bear and quite a few deer with the .358 so I believe it will do just about anything you ask it to do.
DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR

Graybeard Outdoors

Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2006, 12:07:15 pm »
 

Offline 358Win

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2006, 07:34:51 pm »
We can all hope that the emergence of the 338 Federal will shine more light in the direction of the 358 Winchester.  One of the fundamental truths of internal ballistics is that for a given case volume increasing the bore diameter will always increase efficiency and energy assuming everything else remains constant including bullet weight, barrel length, etc.  As an example if you had a spitzer that weighed 175 grains in 7mm, 30, 338, and 358 and used a basic 30-06 case the 30 would be faster than the 7mm, and the 338 would be faster than the 30, and the 358 would be faster than the 338.  Of course the barrel lengths would all have to be the same, say 22 inches for example.  P.O. Ackley did several experiments of this type where the same barrel was re-bored and used in the same action.  The results of course proved that the laws of physics hold and that Pressure = Force / Area so that when the bore area increases in order for the Pressure to be constant the Force must rise.

On the basis of the above a 375/308 would be even more efficient than the 358 Winchester.  But myself and many others like just a bit more shoulder and thus the 358 Winchester wins the race as the most powerful and efficient caliber that can be practically made from the base 308 case.  The same arguement can be made for the 35 Whelen on the base '06 case.

Then when you throw in the versatility of being able to use 9mm and 38/357 pistol and revolver bullets for small game and target loads you just have a combination that can't be beat.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2006, 04:56:18 am »
Thanks again 358win!  For those who had missed my other posts, I just brought home a BLR .358 win on Saturday.  I can't wait to get to the range with it!  If I understand the other posts that I've read correctly - it is safe to shoot .308 rounds from the .358 barrel in order to "fire form" them to make available for reloading?  I don't have reloading equipment yet but I told the wife that it would make an excellent christmas gift *wink*.  I ordered 5 boxes of custom loaded ammo (some of which will need to be used for sighting in/breaking in the barrel) - 2 boxes of 200 gr Barnes XFB, 2 boxes of 225 gr Partitions and 1 box of 250 gr Swift A-Frames.  Which weight do ya'll like better for a deer and black bear (our bears around here get pretty big- in the valley where we hunt, they've pulled out a 400+ pounder and a 622 pounder in 2 out of the last 3 years that I've hunted there)

Offline Carl Crocker

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2006, 07:58:51 am »
DO NOT shoot loaded .308 shells through the .358 bbl. Resize the .308 to .358 then put in a mild load to shoot and fire form the case. As to bullets, I've shot many black bears some in the 500 lb class with the .250 speer bullet and some with the .250 hornady. I believe the speer bullet is a little tougher. I drive it 2350 from my blr with 20"bbl. For scopes, I have a Leaupold 2x7 with # 4 cross hair on mine but had to remove the rear sight to do it with medium weaver quad lock rings.

Offline 358Win

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2006, 04:27:36 pm »
Hi BlackWolf:

   Congrats on the new BLR in 358 Win.  For anyone else I'd probably have to agree with Carl's recommendation and pull the bullets on 308 ammo and then resize to 358.  But I can say for certain that I personally have shot around 400 308's out of my BLR and never had the slightest problem.  The brass fire forms perfectly.  I have heard rumors to the effect that all that rattling down the bore isn't good for the rifling.  But I'm still shooting fine groups out of my BLR mostly 1.25 to 1.75 inches and I'm sure most of that is my 53 year old eyes and I need new glasses.

Offline 358Win

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2006, 08:01:51 pm »
Hi BlackWolf:

   One more note on firing 308 rounds in a 358 chamber.  If you look at the SAAMI specs for the two cartridges you'll find that the datum line diameter is 0.420 inches for the 308 and the 358 and that the datum line is at exactly the same distance from the case head at 1.600 inches.  What this means is that the headspace for both cartrigdes is identical.

   So in answer to the question is fireforming 358 Winchester brass by shooting 308 factory ammo in your 358 Winchester rifle safe???  The answer to that question is absolutely YES.  It is quite safe and makes some of the prettiest 358 Winchester brass you'll ever see.  If the question were changed to be is it a good idea, then I'd probably have to go with maybe.

   So far I've fireformed 40 308 Federal 180 grain loads in nickel plated brass which makes the best 358 Winchester cases I have.  I have also fireformed over 300 Lake City National Match 150 grain military match ammo in my 358 BLR.  Due to the greatly reduced pressure these chronograph on my Ohler 35P at 1,250 fps.  I have a favorite rock at about 200 yards at my favorite shooting spot.  This rock is about 2 feet in diameter and even with those 30 caliber slugs ratlling down that 35 caliber bore I manage to hit that rock almost 100% of the time when fireforming 308 ammo in my 358 BLR.

   I had previously owned two lever actions a Marlin 45-70 and a Winchester 44 Magnum.  With those outfits peep sights were just the ticket.  But it didn't take long with the 358 BLR to realize that I had a real long distance shooter in my hands.  My 358 BLR loaded with 48.0 grains of AA2520 goes just shy of 2,400 fps with the 250 grain Hornady bullet.  Zeroed at 200 yards this is down 11 inches at 300 yards.  A 7mm Rem Mag throwing a 150 grain at 3,200 fps and zeroed at 200 yards is down 6 inches at 300 yards.  So my "short range" 358 Win is only the width of my palm lower than a 7mm Rem Mag.  For real hunting that makes the 358 a 300 yard gun in my book.  Even the retained energy is over 2,000 ft-lbs at 225 yards.

   So I put a Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5-6x variable on it.  This scope has a 30mm body and a 42mm Objective lens.  It is 11.4 inches long and weighs 17.3 ounces, short and light and looks great on my 358 Win BLR.  The 65 foot field of view at 1.55 power is awesome and being able to crank it up to 5.82 power is great for the longer shots.  I used the Weaver Bases and the Warne Medium Rings.  I LOVE the constant eye relief at 4 inches.  The medium rings help me hold my head up just right.  I had them mount just about as far back as it would go.  This not only put my head in a comfortable position but makes getting at the hammer quite easy.  By the way it would have fit with the low rings.

   I'm one estaciic camper, and I'll bet you will be too !!!

Offline 358Win

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2006, 08:28:30 pm »
Hi BlackWolf:

   As for your question about bullet weights for Black Bear I'd recommend any of the following: Barnes 225 grain Triple-X, Nosler 225 grain or 250 grain Partition, Swift 250 or 280 grain A-Frames, or the king the Woodleigh 310 grain.  Actually the 225 or 250 grainers whould be super on Black Bear.  But if you ever wanted to go for Grizzlies then the 280 grain Swift or the 310 grain Woodleigh would be just the ticket.

   Now that I've got a 358 Win BLR, I've got a strong urge to get a Remington 750 semi-auto in 35 Whelen.  For the really big bears 5 of those big 310 grain Woodleighs in a quick hurry would really give me a great feeling of comfort.

   Have you seen the new Stainless BLR?  I think I'd like to have a matching 358 Win BLR in the stainless version.

   My grandest dream as of late would be to get a 325 Winchester Short Magnum Stainless BLR and then pull the barrel and put a 375 stainless barrel on and have it chambered for the 375/325 WSM wildcat.  Now that is a BEAR rifle.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2006, 04:03:31 am »
The BLR I found IS stainless.  But this one isn't shown on their site.  It has the grey laminate stock with stainless barrel but it has the straight grip.  I LOVE it but haven't got to shoot it yet :)  I went with the Leupold 3-9 scope on mine, probably a bit much but I figured for stand hunting it would be nice to be able to crank it up to identify the bucks, they just put in the "at least 4 points on one side" minimum requirement a few years ago here in PA.

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2006, 05:05:39 am »
Oh! and another thing that I can see being a potential problem.  I'd like to have the gun zeroed at 200 yards, I read a lot of posts that said I think +2.4" at 100 yards for 200 gr bullets and 2.8" or something for the 250's.  The shooting range at our camp is only 70 yards long, where should those bullets be impacting to have it zeroed at 200 yards?  Any ideas would be very much appreciated!

Offline Tim50

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2006, 10:33:22 am »
So 358WIN how do you REALLY feel  about the 358?? ;) I am a huge 35 cal fan! A 35 Whelen Encore, a 35 Rem Model 7KS, a 35 Rem Lone Eagle & a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 358 Winchester. I found this rather beatup FWT with the barrel cut to 19 inches (OUCH!) a funky diamond inlay in the stock but the guy could not get ammo for it so I got it right. Its not a wall hanger but I'm a hunter and I have no second thoughts about taking this Pre '64  Fwt in the woods for a day of Bear hunting here in Pennsylvania! I do not reload so the 200gr Winchesters are my only loads! I did just pickup a box of 250gr silvertips a a local shop. I don't know if I want to shoot them because they are very hard to find & if my gun likes them I'm screwed! ;D I used to hunt whitetails with a rechambered Remington 760 in 358 and I foolishly let a friend (?) talk me out of it. That was a great little woods rifle! If we could only talk SOMEONE into loading the cartridge & cataloging a 358 in a production rifle!!! Keep up the 358 talk!!!!!

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2006, 02:49:05 pm »
Tim,
I was directed to www.cpcartridge.com by another post on this site.  I just ordered 5 boxes from them on Sunday or Monday.  I haven't gotten them yet obviously and it says it can take up to 4 weeks to get em.  I'll let you know if I'm happy with them or not.  These are not coming on .358 stamped brass, the web page says on it that they come in .308 brass.  Hope this helps - I'll post on how they function after they arrive! 

If it helps, these are all premium cartridges on their site in .358, Barnes XFB, Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frames and the like.

Offline Tim50

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2006, 03:10:15 pm »
thanks BlackWolf!!! Let me know!!!

Offline 358Win

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2006, 03:51:53 pm »
Hi Tim50:

   I can honestly say that I  :-* LOVE  :-* my 358 Winchester BLR!!  Greatest thing since sliced bread or maybe even the wheel  ;D
Great versatility, great power  :o, great trajectory  :o, all at very moderate recoil  8), and extremely low muzzle blast  :o

   To all the rest of you that don't have a 358 Win, all I can say is you have my deepest condolences  :'(

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2006, 02:54:27 pm »
358win (or anyone else) do you have any idea where i should sight the gun at at my range (70 yards exactly) so that its pretty much zeroed at 200 yards?

Offline Tim50

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2006, 06:22:33 pm »
Here is a good site for 35 caliber fans!! ;)..............Enjoy

http://www.35cal.com/

Offline Whelen Man

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2006, 06:42:48 am »
With my preferred load in the 358 Win for a 200 yard zero it is 2.5 inches high at 70 yards.  That should get you in the ballpark, but hunt for a longe rifle range and verify this with your load and rifle.  It makes you feel better to know for sure.
Quote
If you don't have a 35 you don't have a hunting rifle.

Offline Country Boy

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Re: 358 Win...........Useful or Useless ?
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2006, 07:16:21 am »
Black Wolf, zero you .358 with any bullet 1" high at 50 yds and you can shoot anything your want and make a hit,to 250 yds Most game is well inside that mark. I use .250 speers for bear and have killed a bunch with complete pass throughs, have only found one bullet ! and the bears are DOA. Same with elk and moose. If you can find some OLD AA2015 br it is the best powder I ever found for the .358 however imr 3031 does a fine joob with the 200 grn Hornady. I cronograph all my loads and the are a little lesss than what is in the books but you can easily drive the 200 grn to 2500 the 225's to 2450 and the .250" to 2350 This from a Blr81 with 20" bbl. Bear are shot up close over bait and I've never killed an elk or moose over 175 it just smacks them down with good shot placement. My blr is one of the most accurate rifles I own.

 

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