Author Topic: Triple 7 vs pyrodex  (Read 3490 times)

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Offline Deerhunter#1

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Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« on: April 11, 2011, 06:31:45 pm »
Not the biggest muzzel hunter but have one as pa has an early 1 week doe only season. The bigest draw back I have is I am using pyrodex and when at the range I have to fully clean the barrel between shots. I have been told 7 is cleaner and that is the way to go. is it true or is there something even better.


Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 10:32:54 pm »
I use Triple 7, and feel it is cleaner.  When at the range, after about 6 shots, if it feels like it's getting hard to load the sabots, I just use a spit patch, and I'm good for another 3 shots.

I have been told that Blackhorn 209 is the way to go.  After shooting you just use regular gun cleaners like Hoppes to clean your gun. I don't have personal experience with this though.

I recently bought a bottle of BH209, but I haven't had a chance to work up a load for my gun yet.  I do have to confess, that I like the convenience of the Triple 7 pellets, over measuring loose powder, plus BH 209 is expensive.
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My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Busta

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 11:29:01 pm »
777 is cleaner burning, BUT you will get a crud ring unless you have a golden horseshoe up......well you know. Most guys have to clean the crud ring by swabbing the bore after every shot. Pyrodex is more corrosive than 777.

Blackhorn 209 is a very good powder, if you have a sealed 209 ignition? What rifle?

...................I recently bought a bottle of BH209, but I haven't had a chance to work up a load for my gun yet.  I do have to confess, that I like the convenience of the Triple 7 pellets, over measuring loose powder, plus BH 209 is expensive.

I guess I am going to have to take OSR back to school on the cost of Triple 7 pellets compared to Blackhorn 209.

Triple 7 pellets at Wally World here cost $37. If you shoot magnum loads (3 pellets), you get 33 shots with 1 pellet left over. Or just over $1.11 per shot for just powder.

If you shoot 100 gr loads (2 pellets), you get 50 shots. Or 74 cents per shot for powder.

Blackhorn 209 is 15% more energetic than 777 pellets, so 85 gr by VOLUME will get you equal velocities to 2 pellet loads of 777.

Now Blackhorn 209 is sold in 10 oz (4375 grains) containers. Blackhorn 209 is also much lighter by WEIGHT than VOLUME, and for every 1 grain by VOLUME, you will have 0.7 grains by WEIGHT, or a 0.7 multiplier. Now let's just say that the Blackhorn 209 was the same price ($37) per container for the sake of argument, even though I can buy it for over $10 less than that per bottle.

Now to get an equivalent load to 2 Triple 7 Pellets using Blackhorn 209, you would take 100 gr by VOLUME charge, reduce it by 15% = 85 grains by VOLUME. 85 gr VOLUME x 0.7 = 59.5 grains by WEIGHT.

4375 gr / 59.5 = 73.529 (2 777 pellet equivqalent) shots per container. Or 50 cents per shot for BH209.

For an equivalent 3 pellet Triple 7 load of Blackhorn 209 you need 120 grains by VOLUME, which is 84 grains in WEIGHT.

4375 gr / 84 = 52.08 ( 3 777 pellet equivalent) shots per container. Or 71 cents per shot for BH209.

Magnum load.
Triple 7 = $1.11
BH209 = $0.71

100 gr Equivalent Load.
Triple 7 = $0.74
BH209 = $0.50

Looks like I could shoot magnum Blackhorn 209 loads for less than you can shoot 100 gr Equivalent loads of Triple 7 pellets!

So, now what powder is more expensive? ;)

Everything in red is edited. I guess I need to go back to school? :-[
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Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 04:53:53 am »
Shooting a traditiond Pursuit xlt camo thumbhole with cabelas pine horn 3x9x40 ballistic reticle scope. I will keep my eye out for somee 777 on sale and give it a try.

Offline montveil

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 07:33:26 am »
Price is only one factor
As stated pellets are definitely easier to load than loose, especially for a second shot.
Pyrodex and 777 require cleaning after the shooting session while Blackhorn does not.
If your rifle likes a fouled barrel it is almost impossible to keep a fouled barrel with Pyrodex or 777 without corrosion problems. An important consideration when hunting.
777 builds a crud ring making uneven bullet seating a possibility.
CVA rifle breech plugs require regular cleaning with Blackhorn.
Blackhorn require full strength primers-- not a  real problem
Just some thoughts from a new Blackhorn user
MONTVEIL IN THE NC MOUNTAINS

Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 08:19:39 am »
Has anyone tried the Jim Shockey pellets

Offline Busta

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 10:49:21 am »
Has anyone tried the Jim Shockey pellets

You don't want to go down that road! Nothing more inconsistent in Black Powder Substitutes than American Pioneer/Jim Shockey Gold powder and sticks. It is one of the cleaner burning powders, but it puts it's white chalky "crud ring" up near the muzzle, instead of down by the powder column like 777.

If all your shooting is under 50 yards, it might not make a difference with the huge velocity swings that can be as high as 200+ FPS. Now APP/JSG is marketing a new "Super Powder" that you can only load 100 grains MAX, and a 250 gr bullet MAX. I'm not drinking the "Kool Aid" this time.
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 10:57:59 am »
...................I recently bought a bottle of BH209, but I haven't had a chance to work up a load for my gun yet.  I do have to confess, that I like the convenience of the Triple 7 pellets, over measuring loose powder, plus BH 209 is expensive.

I guess I am going to have to take OSR back to school on the cost of Triple 7 pellets compared to Blackhorn 209.

Triple 7 pellets at Wally World here cost $37. If you shoot magnum loads (3 pellets), you get 33 shots with 1 pellet left over. Or just over $1.11 per shot for just powder.

If you shoot 100 gr loads (2 pellets), you get 50 shots. Or 74 cents per shot for powder.

Blackhorn 209 in 15% more energetic than 777 pellets, so 85 gr by VOLUME will get you equal velocities.

Now Blackhorn 209 is sold in 10 oz (4375 grains) containers. Blackhorn 209 is also much lighter by WEIGHT than VOLUME, and for every 1 grain by VOLUME, you will have 0.7 grains by WEIGHT, or a 0.7 multiplier. Now let's just say that the Blackhorn 209 was the same price ($37) per container for the sake of argument, even though I can buy it of over $10 less than that per bottle.

Now to get an equivalent load to 2 Triple 7 Pellets using Blackhorn 209, you would take 100 gr by VOLUME charge, reduce it by 15% = 85 grains by weight. 85 gr WEIGHT x 0.7 = 59.5 grains by WEIGHT.

4375 gr / 59.5 = 73.529 (2 777 pellet equivqalent) shots per container. Or 50 cents per shot for BH209.

For an equivalent 3 pellet Triple 7 load of Blackhorn 209 you need 120 grains by VOLUME, which is 84 grains in WEIGHT.

4375 gr / 84 = 52.08 ( 3 777 pellet equivalent) shots per container. Or 71 cents per shot for BH209.

Magnum load.
Triple 7 = $1.11
BH209 = $0.71

100 gr Equivalent Load.
Triple 7 = $0.74
BH209 = $0.50

Looks like I could shoot magnum Blackhorn 209 loads for less than you can shoot 100 gr Equivalent loads of Triple 7 pellets!

So, now what powder is more expensive? ;)
[/quote]
Busta,
I paid $42 :o for a 10oz container of BH 209 (you paid $27  ??? for a bottle of BH209?) , and $27 for a box of Triple 7 pellets. I only use 2 pellets (100 grs) per shot.
But you can consider me schooled, as soon as I have time, I'll start playing around with my expensive BH 209, and I'll probably be addicted to the stuff, like I am with "Handi" toys. Speaking of which, I think I have to go looking for a new one, since my older son just absconded with my .223, after taking it to the range. 
Just think, you can get quality schooling for free.  ;)  8)
Busta, thanks again for your knowledge. BTW, I wish I could get BH for $27 a bottle, it took me going to 6 different gun & sporting goods stores, before I finally found a bottle in Ramsey, NJ., and it was the last bottle they had. Those NJ folks are crazy, they asked me for ID, just to buy the powder. I thought they weren't going to sell it to me since I wasn't a NJ resident.
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Online bigblock455

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 02:40:32 pm »
Add in the cost of patches that it takes to clean the T7 crud ring out after each and every shot  :o

It helps using old t shirts but once you run out, off to the store for more material.

BH209 for me in my inlines.  The other stuff has its place, but just not fun having to clean between shots.

Offline Busta

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 10:41:24 pm »
I guess I need to go back to school. After reading OSR's post, I noticed some errors in my first post. I went back and edited it in RED, so you can see my errors. Sorry, I should have proof read my post. :-[
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Offline emsemt911

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 09:03:06 pm »
"Triple Seven is about 15% more energetic than Pyrodex or black powder. Because of this a 130 grain volumetric charge of Triple Seven will be equal to 150 gr. Pyrodex or black powder. I would not suggest shooting over 130 gr. as the recoil is brutal - nothing takes this much killing."

This was in reference to our 209 guns, which will take a 150 grain charge of Pyrodex or 2F black powder, but this statement seems to go along with Hodgdon's original warnings to reduce charges by 15%. Initially, this warning applied to measuring by weight, but they are now apparently extending it to volumetric charges, as well. I'd certainly heed their warnings and reduce max charge by 15%, and limit my charge to 100 grains in a Remington.

Personally, I've had great results with Triple Seven. It burns cleanly, doesn't stink, is water-soluable and seems very consistent in terms of accuracy and velocity (I've chronographed Triple Seven loads several times). I can hardly wait to get my hands on some of the forthcoming Triple Seven pellets.


Offline moto357

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 07:41:08 am »
for what i do, i've found pyrodex p to be my fav...  i can load and shoot more than i care to without cleaning, and either tripple 7 or pyrodex both need to be cleaned and i dont end up with a crud ring.  i will also add that i do not shoot sabots, only large conicals i cast so speed isn't an issue at all. 

Offline S.B.

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Re: Triple 7 vs pyrodex
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 05:50:04 am »
I use Triple 7, and feel it is cleaner.  When at the range, after about 6 shots, if it feels like it's getting hard to load the sabots, I just use a spit patch, and I'm good for another 3 shots.

I have been told that Blackhorn 209 is the way to go.  After shooting you just use regular gun cleaners like Hoppes to clean your gun. I don't have personal experience with this though.

I recently bought a bottle of BH209, but I haven't had a chance to work up a load for my gun yet.  I do have to confess, that I like the convenience of the Triple 7 pellets, over measuring loose powder, plus BH 209 is expensive.

Wasn't Hoppes sprcifically designed for black powder guns, to stop and prevent rust and corrosion? Been around since God was a boy. I know much is on the internet today about newfangled cleaning gear but, Hoppes has always done the job for me.
Steve
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