Author Topic: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today  (Read 4825 times)

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Offline Kurt L

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I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« on: December 31, 2007, 09:10:22 am »
HI everyone
First of all I am new to this site and looks like a nice site and I signed up last night.
I am from mid Michigan.
My boy got a 243 and 20GA.combo and I also got her a 7.62x39 for Christmas.
Then I read all the bad post after I found this site last night.
WELL HERE IS THE BAD NEWS I FOUND ON THE 243 .have not messed with the 7.62 yet. >:(
I shot this this morning and yep all over the Target! I used some 70 gr Speer TNT loads to test.
So I checked some things out!
#1 I took a new factory Winchester/100gr and pulled the bullet from the new case.
#2 Then I set the bullet just in the case mouth, then put it in the gun and closed the action, then took case and bullet back out.
#3Then I got a big surprise,the bullet was just in the case.
#4 I double checked and double checked to be sure before I made a false post here.
#5 my boys gun has a lot of free bore,you could not even get close to the rifling with a 70 gr tnt bullet as the bullet would be right out of the case.
#6 this is the specs on my boys 243 chamber.this is with a new Winchester case and 100 gr bullet.
bullet seated out to touch the rifling is 2.506"
bullet just touches the case mouth at 2.676"
this leaves .170" of the bullet in the case to touch the rifling.by no means not enough to hold a bullet.
you have .258 jump to the rifling. 1/4 inch.
Remington factory 80 gr I also tested is a .281 jump to the rifling.
I used a dial caliper and stoney point tools to measure these.

SORRY ABOUT THE BAD NEWS.
  >:( >:(
this very well could be apart of why nobody can hit the broad side of a barn with the 243.
I will try to contact Rossi with this info and see what they say about the junk they sell.
kurt
KURT LGo TO RIFLE RED RYDER SUPER MAG CARBINE

Graybeard Outdoors

I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« on: December 31, 2007, 09:10:22 am »

Offline Kurt L

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 10:20:52 am »
Sorry I forgot to add:
The head space issue that some have posted is not an issue on this gun anyway.
this is only .005 longer head space of the shoulder longer than a factory loaded shell.
also the neck diameter on fired cases from this rifle. Speer and sierra manual states .276" neck diameter.
this has a .276 outside neck diameter on a fired case,unfired new runs about .273"
all in all the problems I found are free bore not head space problems.not to say how bad the muzzle crown
might be on Rossi guns?
Kurt.
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Offline Uncle Ji

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2008, 08:44:46 am »
This is pretty interesting as the NEF/H&R 243s also a long freebore, and also experiance accuracy issues.  I wonder why these single shots have such long throats?  I have a NEF in 223 also with a long freebore but this rifle will shoot into a dime at 100 yards all day.  I know the NEF/H&R 357 mag chambered barrels also have a long enough throat that many reload and shoot the longer 360 DW cartridge in them without a hitch, i'm going to check my 357 Rossi's throat as I have several 360 DW brass.

Offline Kurt L

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 07:54:45 am »
Most people will have different chamber sizes etc.
I checked this one and loaded the bullet way out from factory length.
the end of the 100gr pointed soft point is in the neck to the
point of about were the shoulder meats the neck,this leaves a
lot out in front of the case to get close to the rifling.
I did get it to shoot fair the first shot was off but the other three,are better
than what I had with factory ammo.
KURT LGo TO RIFLE RED RYDER SUPER MAG CARBINE

Offline auk1124

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 09:01:36 pm »
My wife has one of the 243 barrels from a combo that is set up for deer hunting, and in reloading for that Rossi I've come across something I've never experienced before: necksized-only cases will not chamber in that barrel.  No way, no how.  I have no earthly idea why, maybe a headspace issue, but I have to fl resize all of her brass.   And there does seem to be a lot of freebore as well. 

Personally I think Rossi is chambering these barrels with reamers they bought from Big Lots or somewhere. 

Shame too, cause the 243 Rossi is the absolute perfect size and caliber for a utility rifle.

Offline Brett

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2008, 08:22:33 am »
Do you have to full length resize after each firing in the Rossi?   I don't know a lot about reloading, but I thought that after shells have been fired once in a particular gun the shells would be "fire formed" and usually only needed to be necksized to fit properly in that same gun.  Does the chamber look rough?  Do fired shells appear to be straight and smooth or do they look scared or bulged in any way?  Any signes of exessive presure... cracking, ruptured primers, etc. ? 
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Offline auk1124

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 12:09:06 pm »
Do you have to full length resize after each firing in the Rossi?   I don't know a lot about reloading, but I thought that after shells have been fired once in a particular gun the shells would be "fire formed" and usually only needed to be necksized to fit properly in that same gun.  Does the chamber look rough?  Do fired shells appear to be straight and smooth or do they look scared or bulged in any way?  Any signes of exessive presure... cracking, ruptured primers, etc. ? 

Yep, have to fl resize after every firing.  No pressure signs, bulged primers, split brass.  Chamber appears smooth.  I've went over my neck-sizing technique again and again, looking for errors on my part, and darned if I can find any.  Neck sizing for other rifles works fine for me.  I don't know what the heck it is.  Not mixing brass with another rifle.  Actually bought a second set of 243 dies just for that gun, thinking my dies were weird somehow.  Didn't change things. 

I have no idea what is going on, because my understanding of neck sizing is the same as yours -  fire-formed brass should fit that chamber like a glove.  Not in that Rossi, though.   Either I'm still missing some error in my neck sizing routine with that rifle, or my wife has a Rossi straight out of the Twilight Zone...

Offline Kurt L

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2008, 01:08:22 pm »
SORRY IF I OVER LOOKED SOMETHING BUT.
if you put a shell in that gun and shoot it it is still in the gun then you take the case out
it has to go back in?
you said nothing about it coming out hard so I would say it should go right back in.

does the expander ball pull back out of the case hard? this may stretch your case just a bit and have trouble
with your neck die method.
if so and you full length size and bump the shoulder back and if the expander ball pulls back out hard it still would
stretch the case a bit but you pushed the shoulder back a bit to start so it would work this way. as the first way
would make it a bit longer and not fit.
l just am not sure what is really going on without more info to try and help just making a guess.
KURT LGo TO RIFLE RED RYDER SUPER MAG CARBINE

Offline auk1124

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2008, 06:23:19 pm »
Brass is about impossible to eject after firing.  Maybe there's a burr in the chamber somewhere that I'm not seeing or feeling?  It would about have to be a chamber issue, I suppose, but once I get the fired brass out I don't see anything unusual.  Maybe I need to look closer at the chamber of that barrel.

Offline Kurt L

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2008, 06:31:31 pm »
if it comes out that hard you won't be able to neck size. with good results till you get a fix.
does it do this with store bought shells also?
can you return this gun?
if not get it to a gunsmith and do a chamber cast or he may just look in and see a problem
it must have burs or something to grip that case
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Offline SteveHawaii

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 08:37:20 pm »
I have a Rossi 243 and am experiencing the same problem, that is with Winchester factory loads.  Extraction was difficult too.  I bought some Remmington brass and using 35 grains of Hogdon H-4895 powder, 75 grain Hornaday V-Max bullets, seems to work fine.  I haven't measured the powder charge in the Winchester factory load, but I bet it's near max.  The brass expands in the bore all up and down the case as per my measurements.  Neck sizing isn't sufficient to allow the case to be re-inserted into the case.

Yes, the head spacing is quite large in the Rossi.  I measured .280".  The 75 grain bullets don't come near the lands at all.  I just picked some non-boat tailed 100 grain bullets and they reach.  But the bullet really needs to extend out the case quite a lot.  I haven't fired them yet.  I was shooting a 2" group at 100 yards with the 75 grain bullets, which is pretty poor in my estimation.  So I'm giving up on the 75's for now, except for my wife.
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Offline yogihorseman

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 10:11:18 am »
Hi everyone I'm new here but have been into guns for almost 50 years. there are alot of questions and answers on here about the problems with the Rossi .243 rifle and my grandsons is no diffrent then most of the other Rossi owners that post here, it looks like the target has been shot at with a shotgun when we try to sight it in. My question is has anyone contacted Rossi about this problem and if so what was thier reply.
         Thanks ;D

Offline SteveHawaii

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2009, 12:23:46 am »
I haven't tried contacting them, but I seem to remember another posting somewhere of someone who did, with little or no luck.  I'm still experimenting with mine, and as far as I can tell nothing is broken on the gun, so I'm not interested in contacting Rossi yet.  As I said in my previous post, the 100 grain Winchester ammo works real well in my Rossi.  It's just the excessive recoil that I don't enjoy and the difficulty breaking open the gun after firing.  Have you tried that yet?
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 05:55:51 pm »
It is normal for a Rossi to have to full length size the brass.  I had one with the same results.  The action streaches a little when you fire it, so the brass is longer than can be re-chambered.  You will probably only get about 5 re-loadings before you start getting case seperations, good thing brass is cheap for these things.  NEF is not any better, so it is just the nature of the design.  The long throat is a design feature to keep you from jamming the bullets into the rifleing and making the action streaching even worse.  You will also most likely get vertical stringing, this is also normal.  What to do?  Buy a bolt gun for double the money.  Larry
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Offline SteveHawaii

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 08:00:50 pm »
I think I found a solution to the accuracy problem.  I was able to work up some loads using 100 grain PMC-PSP bullets, which is like the Hornady SP Interlock bullet.  These are long enough to reach the lands of the Rossi.  There may be boat tailed bullets out there that would work, I just haven't looked around much for them.  I loaded 5 rounds each at .010, .020 and .030 off the lands.  The .030 were the most accurate, about half an inch at 50 yards.  I've never shot such a tight group with the Rossi.  I was using 35 grains of H4350 powder and Winchester primers.  The brass was new Remington.  I'm going to play with increasing the powder charge and perhaps a different powder, but it looks like I've found the sweet spot.
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Offline SteveHawaii

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Re: I looked into the rossi 243 problem today
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2009, 10:22:03 pm »
I went to the range again today.  I increased the powder load to 40 grains of H4350 and accuracy was even better.  Shot a .348" group at 50 yards.  Again, I was shooting .030" off the lands, using 100 grain PMC-PSP bullets and once shot Remington brass with Winchester primers.  40 grains is the max powder charge recommended by the books for this load.  I might try to push it a bit but I'm pretty satisfied with the current results.  I think my next session will be to shoot at 100 yards with about 20 rounds of the same load.  I want to make sure this work-up is really working.

By the way, PMC is a Korean ammunition manufacturer.  Their quality was iffy a few years ago, but my experience with them has been positive.  My local gun store buys them in bulk and then sub-divides to help keep the cost down.  So far so good.  You can check them out at:  http://www.pmcammo.com/

Steve

We rarely think people have good sense unless they agree with us.
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