Author Topic: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs  (Read 3695 times)

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Offline zackyholdem

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rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« on: November 02, 2010, 05:42:55 pm »
does anyone have and experience shooting rifled slugs out of a screw in improved cyl/cylinder choke vs. a screw in rifled choke.

i only have experience shooting rifled slugs out of improv cyl and cyl  barrels. i am not concerned with leading in the rifled choke. my thinking is that rifled slugs i.e. rem sluggers or winchesters have grooves to impart spin once the slug leaves the barrel, i was thinking that that extra 2-3" of spin from the rifled choke tube would help get the slug spinning before it left the barrel and help to stabilize it.

anyone have any experience with this.
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rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« on: November 02, 2010, 05:42:55 pm »
 

Offline blind ear

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 07:52:38 pm »
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Offline zackyholdem

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 06:47:45 am »
thank that clarified a few things but i'm interested in the effects of a rifled screw in choke tube vs a improved cylinder/cylinder choke tube for rifled/foster slugs. basically i want to know if a screw in rifled choke tube in a bird barrel would have any positive effect on accuracy for rifled/foster slugs versus a IC or CY bore

thanks Zack
When freedom shivers in the cold shadow of true peril, Its always the patriots who first hear the call. - Charlton Heston

Handi's -30-06, 223 Ultra, 7mm-08, 44 mag, 45-70, 17hmr, Tracker II 12ga, Pardner 10ga (2)12ga's and .410

Offline blind ear

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 10:30:55 pm »
The only slugs that I could get to shoot well were sabot slugs from the choke tube. They would only give two close shots, the third was acceptable at 100 yd but after that the group fell all apart.

Foster slugs didn't give me good results from a clean tube. I think they are too soft for the rifeling to have proper effect. I have seen smooth bores do better. eddiegjr
Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
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An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
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Offline zackyholdem

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 08:05:48 am »
thanks
When freedom shivers in the cold shadow of true peril, Its always the patriots who first hear the call. - Charlton Heston

Handi's -30-06, 223 Ultra, 7mm-08, 44 mag, 45-70, 17hmr, Tracker II 12ga, Pardner 10ga (2)12ga's and .410

Offline gcrank1

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 12:00:17 pm »
No experience, just idle speculation........but, it seems to me that the typical fast velo Foster style slugs have no spin within the bore, and are clippin' along pretty good by the time they hit that screw-in choke tube, and if its rifled they are going to want to 'skid' on through.
The same idea was used to good effect in the old British Paradox gun, but that was with black powder and round balls (though they may have used some short conicals, the article I read was long ago) and it has intriged me ever since. If you were to make up some ballistically equivelent loads for your tubes, and with the proper dia. for your bore, it might work. Lots more messing around than shooting Foster's though.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 12:07:04 pm »
Most Foster slugs are under sized for safety . The rifeling is also for safety . I find that a mod or IM choke handle the foster slug much better than a IC . Also Yes I shot Foster slugs thru a rifled choke and saw no advantage to it . If you are going to buy the tube why not get the sabot slug ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline gcrank1

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 12:47:34 pm »
FWIW, years ago I cut the slugs out of Rem, Fed and Win Foster type shells and mic'ed them. The Win were the largest dia. (maybe not so nowdays, so Id do it again) and, not suprisingly to me, shot the best, ie, consistent 3" groups, to point of aim at 50yd from a 18ish" cyl. bore Stevens pump with a bead on front.
Ive read that high speed photos of Foster slugs show no real spin, but I dont know.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 12:52:47 pm »
They work like a shuttlecock .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline 45LCshoooter

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 02:40:05 pm »
It was my understanding that the purpose of the fins on a foster slug was so it could safely crush if shot thru a choke they get most of their stablization from having a heavy nose and light tail.

I had a Cation tube and liked it but only used it for sabots.

The Paradox guns had deeper rifling than today with a slower twist and was designed for slugs with an hourglass shape that could engage the deeper rifling and still crush down in the restriction without harming the barrel. Foster slugs are quite the opposite of this and are not likely to get good "bite" on the rifling.

OK, i see where i've not really given anything new, sorry; how do you delete?
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 02:54:38 pm »
I (luddite that I am) havent figured that out either.......
I key 'modify' and rework the post from there, then 'Save'.

The old article I had on the Paradox was from 'Experts on Guns and Shooting' published in London in 1900, in the chapter on Holland and Holland. Trials were held using Col. Fosbery's Paradox gun, introduced in 1886. They talked of large round balls and conicals in, specifically a 12 bore, with smooth barrels (it, a double rifle) but for the last 2ish", which were rifled and choked. It weighed 7lb.,2oz. and was also tested with a 'hollow fronted bullet' which weighed 1 3/4oz. over 3 drams of black powder. It shot fine through large shot as well as a typical shotgun and grouped ball as well as the large bore, open express sighted dbl. rifles of the day.
The 'wasp-waisted' projectiles are certainly not new, but not used in those trials.

Those darn Fosters work remarably good for what they are, dont they! As much as I enjoy the 'whys' of things Im glad I dont have to explain it all.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 04:03:27 pm »
The rifled choke tube gave me 2 good shots at 100 yds with sabot slugs then it needs cleaning. A smooth bore can give many shots with good groups at 75 yards or more with foster slugs and other slugs if a good match is found. It just depends on what you want. eddiegjr
Oath Keepers: start local
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“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
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Offline zackyholdem

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2010, 05:34:10 pm »
thanks for all the info guys, i have found that sabots out of a rifled choke tube vs a full rifled bore the sabots show no real improvement over rifled foster style slugs out of a IC choked barrel in terms of accuracy, so if you want accuracy out of sabots use a full rifled barrel not a rifled choke tube.

i've hunted my whole life in the michigan shotgun only zone and used nothing but rifled foster style slugs, something about hurling a 1oz chunk of lead at 1700fps at a deer gets me all excited, im just looking for ways to squeeze a few extra inches of accuracy out of my slug gun setup, and i was hypothesizing that a rifled choke tube might be a way to do it
When freedom shivers in the cold shadow of true peril, Its always the patriots who first hear the call. - Charlton Heston

Handi's -30-06, 223 Ultra, 7mm-08, 44 mag, 45-70, 17hmr, Tracker II 12ga, Pardner 10ga (2)12ga's and .410

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2010, 11:56:33 am »
My experience is that it's very important to test slug loads in your gun before hunting with them. Accuracy from one load to the next can vary dramatically.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2010, 09:42:16 am »
One plus on that! The only way to know what's best for you and your gun is to try them all. Bench resting a light shotgun is no fun but it is informative. I have a Winchester 1300 pump 12 gauge with 22" smoothbore barrel, open sights and choke tubes. I found it could hold a 6" group at 100 with the S&B slugs and only with those, some brands went 6" at 50. The sights are pretty "coarse", rather like the British express sights and I probably couldn't hold much tighter than 6 moa with a sniper rifle wearing those sights.
There is a lot of game wasted by so called "hunters" who just buy a box of slugs and go hunting.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline gcrank1

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2010, 02:02:19 pm »
A little more from the book 'Experts on Guns and Shooting', 1900:
8 bore, spherical ball, 892 gr., 10 drams BP, muzzle velo 1654, energy 5232ft.lb.
8 bore, conical bullet, 1257gr.,10 drams BP,        "        1500,    "      6273
This from a 17 1/2 lb., 26" barreled rifle
         
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2010, 06:35:03 am »
If you want to know how to shoot a slug and get the most accuracy out of it go to tarhunt.com look up how to shoot a slug gun . Its as much the shooter as the slugs
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: rifled choke tube vs IC choke for rifled slugs
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2010, 02:12:05 pm »
I tried both the IC and rifled choke tubes with slugs in my Remington 870,  and could see no difference.  Winchester slugs worked best for me.

 

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