White Muzzleloading Systems - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Default White Muzzleloading Systems

Can anyone tell me about White Muzzleloading Systems muzzloaders? I picked one up today at an auction (it looked like a nice firearm) but I can't seem to find any information about them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

The White rifles were started by Doc (Gary) White in Utah. The company has been owned by several organizations but is presently out of business and will likely stay that way. The rifles are very well made and actively pursued by many. Depending on what model you got they usually sell for around $300-$500. Used usually can be found in the lower price area. If it is one of the later models like a Super 91 or an Ultramag you have a very desirable rifle. If the barrel is over 22 inches long it is likely one of those. The Model 97 usually has a 22 inch barrel and is somewhat less desirable although I bought two of them and they are great rifles. Usually the rifles are .504 which take a somewhat larger bullet than most muzzleloading .50 cal rifles. Bullets can be ordered from No-Excuses or other sources. They will also shoot sabots quite well although they are known for their ability to shoot heavy solid lead conical bullets better than most other rifles. They were one of the first "long range muzzleloaders". For information and owners manuals go to Doc Whites site at www.whitemuzzleloading.com. The actual White site is no longer active. Doc's site has a ton of information available. Let me know what you have and if it is an Ultramag I will buy it for what you paid plus $20. There are also .451 caliber White rifles but less common although also actively pursued. If you want to go into detail you can contact me at [email protected].
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by zara_puppy
Can anyone tell me about White Muzzleloading Systems muzzloaders? I picked one up today at an auction (it looked like a nice firearm) but I can't seem to find any information about them.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Congratulations on picking up a fine White muzzleloader. Which model and Caliber do you have? I would guess a G-Series Whitetail, G-Series Bison, W-Series Super-91, SG-Series White Lightning since you said it was a White Muzzleloading Systems rifle.

The history of White can pretty much be researched on Doc's site. It has been a roller coaster ride from the begining, but the rifles are as sound as they come. The calibers range from .410, .451, .504, .540, and 12 ga.

The early Whites were Armstech's.Then in the early 90's it was White Muzzleloading Systems, the W-Series Super-91's, G-Series Whitetail were the more popular models. In the mid-90's it was White Shooting Systems. About 1997 it was Muzzleloading Technologies Incorporated (MTI), M-97 Whitetails, M-97 Blacktails (teflon coated), and M-98 Elite Hunters were the main models. Around 2000 Spitfire bought them and just labeled them White Rifles, then later White Rifles, LLC.

Some of the models over the years.

W-Series Super-91
W-Series Super Safari (Full Stock)
G-Series Whitetail (also 500 Roger Raglin Signature models w/White (by Lyman) peep sights)
G-Series Blacktail (teflon coated)
G-Series Bison (heavy barrel, blued)
G-Series Odyssey (Christiansen carbon fiber wrapped barrel)
SG-Series White Lightning (.504 only)
BG-Series White Thunder (12 ga Shotgun)
BG-Series Tominator (12ga Shotgun) (Ray Eye Signature)
Javalina (pistol)
M-97 Whitetail (also offered in a Roger Raglin signature model)
M-97 Blacktail
B97 Thunder
B97 Tominator
M-98 Elite Hunter
M-98 Super Safari (Full Stock)
Thunderbolt
M-97 Ultra-Mag (Sportsmans Warehouse exclusive)
Super-91 II (Doc's Special Edition Signature Model)

I know I am forgetting at least one other odd-ball model of inline, but can't remember it right now. There were also some sidelock Sporting Rifles over the years too. Doc built a few rifles in .367 caliber for the White Shooting Team, and won the Nationals in 2006. I think it was his last ditch effort to secure a buyer, but so far there have been no takers.

I have owned a White since about 94-95, but not until I drooled over them for a few years, and picked up a couple more along the way.

That might be a bit more than you asked for, but it was a fun ride while it lasted.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!

Oh, and you have to tell us what you paid, so we can be jealous.

I forgot the Alpha, the one they never built.
http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/alpha.htm



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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems



It's a Model 97 Whitetail Hunter. It is new in the box with tags still attached. It is a matte stainless with composite stock. This is the closest pic I can find. I think the pic is a 50 cal, but the one I got is a 45 (451). It came in a Koplin Hard case. I got it for $90. So I'm guessing I did OK, correct?
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

zara_puppy,

That was a horrible deal! For them! Answer any/all of the following you can, and I will be able to tell you exactly what you have, including who made the barrel. Does yours have the gray flecked stock or black? How long is the barrel, 22" or 26"? 1 or 2 ramrod thimbles, metal or plastic? Aluminum or Delrin ramrod? 1 or 2 bolts holding the action/barrel in the stock. Funnel crown or stepped crown? 6 lands and grooves or 7 lands and grooves? Marble sights (fiber optic) or Williams sights? #11, musket cap, or 209 ignition? If you have a M-97 Whitetail Hunter, I don't think it was made by White Muzzleloading Systems, probably MTI , White Rifles, Splitfire, White Rifles, LLC. White Muzzleloading Systems had a "W" inside an oval and made a G-Series Whitetail, the later ones (White Shooting Systems, White Rifles) had a "W" with crosshairs going through it. What does it actually say on the barrel?

No matter what you did good, and if you care to double your money, give me a PM or e-mail. If not give me a PM or e-mail, and I will tell you where to go to make about 150 DWB's (Dirty White Boys) sick and learn more about your rifle at he same time.

Another thing you might want to know, the .451's have a 1-20 twist and like long heavy bullets (460 grain + full bore conicals) the best. Just don't expect it to shoot those little bitty pistol bullets out of a sabot as good. If you want a sabot shooter, take me up on my offer and you can go buy one.

The sad reality is, there is no Company left to honor the warranty, or to supply parts if needed.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

Man, what a deal. If you don't like that comp stock I have a Laminate stock I'd trade ya for.
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

You can see where this is going. I have a .504 Whitetail Hunter Stainless with a laminated stock and a scope that I will trade and give you another $20. I have two Whitetail hunters but both in .504 so I would like the .451. email at [email protected]. Needless to say you got more than a good deal.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busta
zara_puppy,

That was a horrible deal! For them! Answer any/all of the following you can, and I will be able to tell you exactly what you have, including who made the barrel. Does yours have the gray flecked stock or black? How long is the barrel, 22" or 26"? 1 or 2 ramrod thimbles, metal or plastic? Aluminum or Delrin ramrod? 1 or 2 bolts holding the action/barrel in the stock. Funnel crown or stepped crown? 6 lands and grooves or 7 lands and grooves? Marble sights (fiber optic) or Williams sights? #11, musket cap, or 209 ignition? If you have a M-97 Whitetail Hunter, I don't think it was made by White Muzzleloading Systems, probably MTI , White Rifles, Splitfire, White Rifles, LLC. White Muzzleloading Systems had a "W" inside an oval and made a G-Series Whitetail, the later ones (White Shooting Systems, White Rifles) had a "W" with crosshairs going through it. What does it actually say on the barrel?

No matter what you did good, and if you care to double your money, give me a PM or e-mail. If not give me a PM or e-mail, and I will tell you where to go to make about 150 DWB's (Dirty White Boys) sick and learn more about your rifle at he same time.

Another thing you might want to know, the .451's have a 1-20 twist and like long heavy bullets (460 grain + full bore conicals) the best. Just don't expect it to shoot those little bitty pistol bullets out of a sabot as good. If you want a sabot shooter, take me up on my offer and you can go buy one.

The sad reality is, there is no Company left to honor the warranty, or to supply parts if needed.
OK- here goes...
The stock - it is flecked. More like tiny little scragly lines as opposed to a metal flake.
The Barrel - it is 22"
The ramrod thimble - there is one and it appears to be the same material as the stock
The ramrod - aluminum
Bolts - one hex that seems to lock the barrel to the stock. There are two on the trigger guard.
The crown - it does not appear to be recessed (like my Ruger Comp Mark II) - looks like a standard rounded crown.
Lands and grooves - 6
Sights - Tru Glo fiber optic
Ignition - #11 caps
The Barrel says "White Rifles Model 97 Whitetail Hunter".

And I will consider your offer. I wasn't really looking for anything special - more along the lines of a T/C Omega or such. They just went too high at the auction. Go figure!
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-17-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by zara_puppy
And I will consider your offer. I wasn't really looking for anything special - more along the lines of a T/C Omega or such. They just went too high at the auction. Go figure!
That's because outside of a few diehards no one wants a White. Since yours is a .451 you'd be better off selling it NIB. There's enough guys that want a White .451, and the synthetic stock is a big plus, that I can see you tripling or quadrupling what you have in it. Then you can put that to something that you want.
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 09-20-2007, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: White Muzzleloading Systems

Diehards?? : You betcha!! Those who don't want a White have never owned or shot one. Those who go by "hearsay" are fools. Those who HAVE will never part with them. The company might suck since it left Doc's hands,,,,,but until you shoot one, you'll never truly experience a more accurate or forgiving muzzleloader shooting true conical bullets. I've shot the 300gr. Barnes Expanders with equal results. The now defunct company never produced a single firearm,,so everything out there came from Doc. I own 5 of them now,,,and wouldn't sell any of them. My last range session with a new .504 bullet design wasn't too bad. For those of us "die-hards",,,,we like to play and experiment.

This is a trial run from the new bullet design. It's a 441gr. pure lead conical cast from a custom Lee mould, using 70gr. of Swiss 3F at 50 yards with one of my Super 91s. At 100 yards,,I had 3 touching. Yeah,,,,,White rifles are junk....I wouldn't want another one either... :

Zara puppy,,,,,you got the "deal of the year".....

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