Winchester 350 Legend - Page 11 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #101 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 02:51 PM
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i got this from another website. he is a excellent gunsmith.



#3

My sincerest apologies for the deletion of all the posts that were already here…

Reason being is that I just spent a couple of hours on the phone with guys from Winchester, and with all of the new things that I have learned today, misinformation was given, and some to the point that is would open up liabilities that I would not want to be responsible for…

So, with information that is now fact, and straight from the company who designed and developed the new 350 Legend cartridge, let’s try this again…

Key Features of the 350 Legend Cartridge, as listed by Winchester –

More ENERGY than 30-30 Win, 300 Blackout and 223 Remington…

World’s fastest straight-walled cartridge…

Approximately 20% LESS RECOIL than the 243 Winchester…

20% more PENETRATION…

LESS RECOIL than the 450 Bushmaster…

Effective deer hunting ranges up to 250 yards, plus it delivers more energy than the 5.56mm, 300 Blackout or 30-30 Winchester…

This is a new case design and is NOT made from straight walled 223 Remington brass…

Compliant in states that allow straight wall cartridges for deer hunting…

2019 – 350 Legend Ammunition Offerings From Winchester:

350 Deer Season XP® 150 grain Extreme Point / 2,325 fps…

350 Super X® 180 grain Power-Point / 2,100 fps…

350 Hog Special 180 grain Power-Point / 2,100 fps…

350 USA White Box 145 grain FMJ Flat Nose / 2,350 fps…

350 Power Max Bonded® 160 grain Bonded JHP / 2,225 fps…

350 Super Suppressed™ 265 grain Open Tip / 1,060 fps…

The 350 Legend is rated at a s.a.a.m.i. maximum average pressure of 55,000 psi…

BORE/GROOVE is .346/.355……….. Now knowing this information, I would NOT use .358 diameter bullets in a factory chambered rifle! Reason being is that the factory chamber is cut with a .357 diameter throat, then it tapers down to .355 (which is 9mm)…

Factory barrel’s are 9mm and are NOT .357 or .358, but with the throating that Winchester is using, and using bullets of softer construction, those bullets can and do squeeze down in diameter to pass through the bore without issue!

New rifles or barrels offered through me, will have the correct 9mm bore and groove diameter and will be throated specifically for. 357 diameter bullets…

I should be able to tweak a few dimensions on the reamer to make it BETTER, since it is now s.a.a.m.i. spec’d reamer and the final dimensions have already been made…

Again, my apologies for the deletion of the other posts. Any questions, I will take them straight to the source and make sure that any and all answers are correct before posting…

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post #102 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:31 AM
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I do believe Winchester will have proper hunting bullets for it, others will follow.


DM

Maybe so, but why reinvent the wheel? There are tons of .357 diameter bullets that fit the bill, but they want to go and make a whole new line of bullets in .355 diameter. That makes about as much sense as designing a car with a 17.5" diameter wheel when 17" and 18" are readily available.


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post #103 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:37 AM
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has it been determined for sure that brass cant be made from 556? That's the real deal breaker for me. I can always pick up a few molds and like dinny said any gun that shoots 357s will usually run 358s.

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post #104 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 07:55 AM
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I have the same question. Just because it is "a new case design" and not derived from the 556 doesn't meant the 556 can't be formed as a replacement.


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post #105 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:39 AM
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has it been determined for sure that brass cant be made from 556? That's the real deal breaker for me. I can always pick up a few molds and like dinny said any gun that shoots 357s will usually run 358s.
You could likely make limited use cases from 223 basic brass as guys are making 5.45x39 cases which end up with a very similar case head diameter from 223. No idea how long they last though. 223 basic isn't cheap and who knows how long it will be available. For length though, a 5.56 case is too short. Here's 5 cases (WCC and LC) that were annealed, expanded, resized, rolled (to remove the shoulder wrinkle and give them the best shot at being as long as they could) and finally resized. Average length was 1.690" when sized perfectly straight at .374". Most of the 5.56 cases you'll measure will mic .373"-.374" on the base diameter for once fired brass which is under the listed .376"-.377" for 223/5.56. Once you fireform that up to .382" for 357AR you've lost about another .005"-.008". I don't have a 350L chamber to try it, but I imagine you'd loose another .005"-.008" expanding the base up to .390". So your average case would end up more along the lines of 1.680"-.1.674" long once expanded and fireformed to 350L. I personally wouldn't use a high pressure straight walled case .020"+ under the trim length. There are ways to lengthen the case, but they're not very practical. Winchester didn't do reloaders any favors making the case 1.71" long or making the 9mm barrel have a tight enough throat to prevent the use of .358" bullets.
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post #106 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:51 AM
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That makes about as much sense as designing a car with a 17.5" diameter wheel when 17" and 18" are readily available.
Rosewood
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but modern car's had 14" and 15" wheels all the way back, and pu's had 15" and 16"... SO, did it make any sense "design" wheel for cars to now have 17" and bigger??

AND pu's had 16" wheels for years and years! My new pu came with 17" wheels, and bigger were optional! Why??

SO, same thing works with the bullet BS...

None of this is NEW news, I reported here on GBO (quite a while ago) that the Legend would use .355" bullets and the chambers would be throated so .357" could also safely be used. I also said it "wasn't" a .223 necked up, so I guess the guy that measured his FACTORY ammo and sending me the specs that I reported long ago, was accurate.

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Last edited by Drilling Man; 04-16-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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post #107 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 11:02 AM
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You could likely make limited use cases from 223 basic brass as guys are making 5.45x39 cases which end up with a very similar case head diameter from 223. No idea how long they last though. 223 basic isn't cheap and who knows how long it will be available. For length though, a 5.56 case is too short. Here's 5 cases (WCC and LC) that were annealed, expanded, resized, rolled (to remove the shoulder wrinkle and give them the best shot at being as long as they could) and finally resized. Average length was 1.690" when sized perfectly straight at .374". Most of the 5.56 cases you'll measure will mic .373"-.374" on the base diameter for once fired brass which is under the listed .376"-.377" for 223/5.56. Once you fireform that up to .382" for 357AR you've lost about another .005"-.008". I don't have a 350L chamber to try it, but I imagine you'd loose another .005"-.008" expanding the base up to .390". So your average case would end up more along the lines of 1.680"-.1.674" long once expanded and fireformed to 350L. I personally wouldn't use a high pressure straight walled case .020"+ under the trim length. There are ways to lengthen the case, but they're not very practical. Winchester didn't do reloaders any favors making the case 1.71" long or making the 9mm barrel have a tight enough throat to prevent the use of .358" bullets.
Nor any favors (if they really are) in making it a 9mm bore and forcing a .357" bullet through it.

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post #108 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 12:43 PM
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Perhaps you haven't noticed, but modern car's had 14" and 15" wheels all the way back, and pu's had 15" and 16"... SO, did it make any sense "design" wheel for cars to now have 17" and bigger??

AND pu's had 16" wheels for years and years! My new pu came with 17" wheels, and bigger were optional! Why??

DM

I am aware of that. It didn't really make sense except for looks which is subjective. However, making a .355 bullet in heavier weights makes even less sense when a .357 already exist. I guess I should have come up with a different analogy.


Bearings for example. If you are designing something that needs bearings, you break out a book of available bearings, find one that is close to what you need, then you make your part to fit the available bearings. You don't design the part then call the bearing manufacturer and say, "make me a part in between these 2 sizes to fit my application".


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post #109 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 02:06 PM
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You don't design the part then call the bearing manufacturer and say, "make me a part in between these 2 sizes to fit my application".
Very good point...except:

You do if you ALSO own the bearing manufacturing facility (Olin), and many of your bearing (bullet) customers are the end consumer, and none of your other bearings are selling well.

Last edited by Jussie Mangum Brawley; 04-22-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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post #110 of 244 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 03:11 PM
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You do if you ALSO own the bearing manufacturing facility (Olin), and many of your bearing customers are the end consumer, and none of your other bearings are selling well.

Hey, hey, don't be using logic on me.....

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