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357 Max confusion

4K views 34 replies 19 participants last post by  treeslayer 
#1 ·
I am trying to get a load to hunt deer with for my 357 Maximum Handi Rifle. This is a factory 357 barrel and receiver that has always shot 357 Mag good. Shooting 180 XTP over 27 gr of 1680 after reading all the great posts about that load. I have holes touching at 50 yards and thought I had the right combination but at 100 yards my group opens up to 4"-5". I took the scope off and cleaned and re-torqued everything and still the same results. I am not confident enough to use this gun hunting. Any thoughts of what might be happening, does the gun just not like the 180 XTPs or do you think something else is wrong? Have some 357 Mag 180 gr Buffalo Bore I will shoot and see how that does for hunting. Very disappointed, may sell the 357 and buy a 350 Legend.
 
#3 ·
I am working on a similar load for my Henry single-shot in 357 Max. I would back down .5 or 1 grain and see how it shoots? I wouldn't give up on the Max yet, the Legend will likely take load development too? I hope to use a 180 grain cast gas check in my Henry this year, with the Hornady 180xtp as a back up? Later, hc18flyer
 
#4 ·
Here are a couple of things to consider that could affect accuracy beyond 50yds.

- Check the crown for imperfections
- Float the forend with a rubber o-ring
- Crimping the same everytime - some rifles like heavy, some like none
- Scope magnification - I can shoot tighter groups at shorter distance with lower power scopes
- shooter consistency - errors are magnified at distance

Hopefully you get it tightened up, but remember a 4" group means you'll always hit within 2" of where you're aiming.

Thanks, Dinny
 
#7 ·
All good info here.

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#6 ·
I haven't had good results with AA1680. It seems a little slower and lower pressure than H110/W296, Lilgun and MP300. These seem about the right level of burn rate to get the powder to build enough pressure to expand the case and seal off the chamber from the combustion gasses. With 1680 I found the cases and chamber to be covered in soot. With the other powders not much if any soot. This tells me the 1680 is a little slow for this cartridge. Anyone else see this?
 
#8 ·
This is a Ford vs Chevy debate. I used Lil Gun before and it done well. Pete turned me on to this with his Michigan recipe and i was pleased. I'm experimenting with 1680 with recommendations of some old max heads here. I have always heard H110 as a good powder too. Of course Dave you even have me thinking about the MP300 which has always been good for you. As a new hand loader it's a big confusion for me. Which powder which crimp which bullet. I have 3 maxis now and all different configurations a factory maxi, a reamed 158 Topper Maxi and a reamed late model maxi. 3 different barrel lengths. 19 3/4, 21 and 22 in respectively. I really don't feel all 3 will like same blend

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#10 ·
Maybe it is just me, but go back to 50 yards and still see if the shots are touching. If they are scattered there now, then you have either a scope problem or you have a loose buttstock or even a floppy sloppy fore end. Dinny already gave you the fix for the fore end. I always took mine a step further and glass bedded my fore end so they would not move period. I also glass bedded the buttsock to the rear of the reciever so it too would not shift under recoil. Also make sure the latching shelf is free from oil. If it shift under recoil it will affect PoI. I always take a cotton swab with alcohol and clean the latch shelf.

The Max at 100 yards and 4 to 5 inch groups is still minute of deer. Not great, but doable. YMMV on that take.
 
#15 ·
And a quality one from a reputable builder.

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#16 ·
Stick with it. The Legend has its own problems.

All good suggestions so far.

Your using a scope. What scope. What power? Parallax is a accuracy killer. This could also be your problem.
Here is a target I shot couple weeks ago. Rifle is a known very very good shooter.

Target archery Recreation Shooting sport Individual sports Precision sports


OK. There is 9 holes in the target. ALL are same load fired from a bench at same time distance 100Yards.

The gun was prev sited in @ 100 on 10X with same ammo. It shot 1/2” high centered. Now there was a bit of a left to right wind that day and it can & did get blusterous that day.

The four 2.5” to the right where fired on 2.5X. :/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif
High was fired @ 3.5. Three in one hole where fired at about 6x and single hole to right was @ 8X. Random number of shots simply cause it was off the cuff test as I was leaving range. (I was just waiting for cease fire and all equipt was already packed up in my truck.
This is 95% parallax problems.

He is same rifle three diff loads with differe t scope also 100Y

Shooting sport Circle Recreation Target archery Shooting


Then we can enter the rabbit hole that is a canted scope...

CW
 
#17 ·
CW, that is good info.


I had my deer rifle a few weeks back where I was zeroing it at 200 yds. This was the first time I had shot it greater than 100 yards at paper. The scope is parallax free at 100. The accuracy was way worse than it should be from 100 to 200. Properly torqued the stock screws and tried again the next week. I did notice the parallax on the 2nd trip and made an effort to center my eye and it shot like it was suppose to. Maybe it wasn't the stock screws, but the parallax that was the issue.

Thanks,

Rosewood
 
#18 ·
I use Winchester 680 powder in my 10" Contender 377 Max. My 100 yard groups, from the bench, average around 3"with a 2.5X scope. I use the Remington 180 gr hollow points for my deer hunting. Dropped several deer with the load. All shots were under 75 yards.
 
#19 ·
I just loaded some of those Remingtons tonight myself!!

My 680 is long gone. I shot it up in 45 Colt loads. CW
 
#20 ·
Groo here
Had a long talk with J.D. Jones about WW680/AA1680 [for handgun, same/same]
680/1680 is for heavy bullets ,in 357 180gr +, 41 230+, 44 300+ and 454 300+..
Anything lighter will not restrict the powder enough to light correctly.
Also, you need hot primers and heavy bullet pull,[crimp]
The load is, fill case to base of bullet, then weigh ,, start at 90% of that..
680/1680 is so slow that it is hard to get in trouble in a magnum handgun...
Yuu will not get quite the speeds of 296/H110 but close at lower pressure.
Ps. lighter bullets or loads are just a wast .
My loads seem to fall around 95% or so.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I have a 357 AR max that shot my custom 180 gr cast PC bullets great (1.5 moa) at 100 yds, but lousy at 200 yds (3 - 4 moa).

Same gun did good at both distances with a 200 gr custom cast (sub 2 moa).

Do not be discouraged that a specific gun does strange with a specific bullet. It happens.

I also shoot a lot of 357 max. In a break open, the max seems to be a better fit than the 350L.
 
#22 ·
injt,
Are you using small rifle primers? If not, you may want to switch and check accuracy again.

Thanks, Dinny
 
#23 ·
Yes, I am using small rifle primers. I have some 158 gr XTP sitting around that I am going to try just to see what happens. I also have some 357 Magnum factory loads I want to shoot to see if they group better, should let me know if it is gun problems, load problem or shooter error. This will be done after hunting season is over. Thanks for everyone's input, the way my season has gone, whenever I have a gun in my hands, I never see a deer!
 
#27 ·
My take on the Hornady 180 gr. XTP-HP it is not a good deer bullet for near maximum loads in the 357 max. It is to fragile and is really designed as a pistol bullet. I know many have killed deer with them just like the 240 gr. 44 cal. XTP-HP but I have seen them blow up and not penetrate more than once or twice.
Just my 2 cents on that bullet choice for deer.

jedman
 
#29 ·
I dispatched a small buck 2 seasons ago with the 180 XTP doing 1675 at the muzzle at 40 yards. Clean pass thru, nice exit wound and fellow ran a about 20 yards before piling up. If it was fragile, I didnt see it. Maybe I wasn't pushing it hard enough.
Rosewood
That's a good velocity for that bullet. I'm sure it can be pushed faster than 2000 fps and that's where it can get a bit dicey.

Thanks, Dinny
 
#33 ·
I believe Steinel uses the 180gr Speer HCFN in their ammo. Several of us have at least tried the bullet ourselves. I can't find an accurate load for either the 180gr or 220gr HCFN bullets in the 357 Max, 35 Rem or 358 Win 😞

Thanks, Dinny
 
#34 ·
The SPEER 180 is good but as the 180 XTP is on the fragile side that Speer is on the tough side and if vel drop below 1800 ish fps its not gonna open up without larger resistance in its path.

CW
 
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