357 Max confusion - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Default 357 Max confusion

I am trying to get a load to hunt deer with for my 357 Maximum Handi Rifle. This is a factory 357 barrel and receiver that has always shot 357 Mag good. Shooting 180 XTP over 27 gr of 1680 after reading all the great posts about that load. I have holes touching at 50 yards and thought I had the right combination but at 100 yards my group opens up to 4"-5". I took the scope off and cleaned and re-torqued everything and still the same results. I am not confident enough to use this gun hunting. Any thoughts of what might be happening, does the gun just not like the 180 XTPs or do you think something else is wrong? Have some 357 Mag 180 gr Buffalo Bore I will shoot and see how that does for hunting. Very disappointed, may sell the 357 and buy a 350 Legend.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:30 PM
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Try loading a few 158 grain JHP and see how they shoot...I have a couple of Max barrels that just dont like the heavier bullets...and I have no trouble killing deer and hogs with the 158's...
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:39 PM
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I am working on a similar load for my Henry single-shot in 357 Max. I would back down .5 or 1 grain and see how it shoots? I wouldn't give up on the Max yet, the Legend will likely take load development too? I hope to use a 180 grain cast gas check in my Henry this year, with the Hornady 180xtp as a back up? Later, hc18flyer
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:30 PM
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Here are a couple of things to consider that could affect accuracy beyond 50yds.

- Check the crown for imperfections
- Float the forend with a rubber o-ring
- Crimping the same everytime - some rifles like heavy, some like none
- Scope magnification - I can shoot tighter groups at shorter distance with lower power scopes
- shooter consistency - errors are magnified at distance

Hopefully you get it tightened up, but remember a 4" group means you'll always hit within 2" of where you're aiming.

Thanks, Dinny

I reload and shoot 348 Win, 358 Win, 6.5 Grendel, 30-06 Springfield, 300 BLK, 44 Mag, 357 Maximum, 9mm, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 225 Win and 35 Rem
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 07:46 PM
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Was it factory Maximum or reamed? What reamer was used???

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The growing Handi/Sportster/Pardner/Topper Family: .22 WMR, .22-250. 223, Two Superlight 7mm-08s and one Superlight .243, standard .243, .30-30, 16.5 inch .30-40, .308, 32-20, 18 inch .356/.358 Win., Two 16.5 inch .357 Max., 18 inch 38-55. 16.5 inch .445 Super Mag., .45LC, 16.5 and 22 inch .45-70s, .50 Huntsman SS, .410, 20 ga., 12 ga., 20 ga. Pardner Pump, Versa-Pack .410 - .22
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 09:17 PM
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I haven't had good results with AA1680. It seems a little slower and lower pressure than H110/W296, Lilgun and MP300. These seem about the right level of burn rate to get the powder to build enough pressure to expand the case and seal off the chamber from the combustion gasses. With 1680 I found the cases and chamber to be covered in soot. With the other powders not much if any soot. This tells me the 1680 is a little slow for this cartridge. Anyone else see this?

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinny View Post
Here are a couple of things to consider that could affect accuracy beyond 50yds.

- Check the crown for imperfections
- Float the forend with a rubber o-ring
- Crimping the same everytime - some rifles like heavy, some like none
- Scope magnification - I can shoot tighter groups at shorter distance with lower power scopes
- shooter consistency - errors are magnified at distance

Hopefully you get it tightened up, but remember a 4" group means you'll always hit within 2" of where you're aiming.

Thanks, Dinny
All good info here.

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Pardners 410 22''full, 20ga Tamer, 20ga 20' threaded for chokes youth model, Pardner 12ga 18.5 threaded for chokes.
too many numerous ones that have been sold
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Dave View Post
I haven't had good results with AA1680. It seems a little slower and lower pressure than H110/W296, Lilgun and MP300. These seem about the right level of burn rate to get the powder to build enough pressure to expand the case and seal off the chamber from the combustion gasses. With 1680 I found the cases and chamber to be covered in soot. With the other powders not much if any soot. This tells me the 1680 is a little slow for this cartridge. Anyone else see this?
This is a Ford vs Chevy debate. I used Lil Gun before and it done well. Pete turned me on to this with his Michigan recipe and i was pleased. I'm experimenting with 1680 with recommendations of some old max heads here. I have always heard H110 as a good powder too. Of course Dave you even have me thinking about the MP300 which has always been good for you. As a new hand loader it's a big confusion for me. Which powder which crimp which bullet. I have 3 maxis now and all different configurations a factory maxi, a reamed 158 Topper Maxi and a reamed late model maxi. 3 different barrel lengths. 19 3/4, 21 and 22 in respectively. I really don't feel all 3 will like same blend

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Handis 223 Superlight, 357 Maxi x 2,
Pardners 410 22''full, 20ga Tamer, 20ga 20' threaded for chokes youth model, Pardner 12ga 18.5 threaded for chokes.
too many numerous ones that have been sold
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 09:51 PM
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Since we’re contemplating powders, don’t overlook 2400. Paired with the pinnacle 180 SSPB, hard to find I know, pretty decent combination in my Maxi. Cloverleaf at 100 yard if I do my part decent.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 07:44 AM
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Maybe it is just me, but go back to 50 yards and still see if the shots are touching. If they are scattered there now, then you have either a scope problem or you have a loose buttstock or even a floppy sloppy fore end. Dinny already gave you the fix for the fore end. I always took mine a step further and glass bedded my fore end so they would not move period. I also glass bedded the buttsock to the rear of the reciever so it too would not shift under recoil. Also make sure the latching shelf is free from oil. If it shift under recoil it will affect PoI. I always take a cotton swab with alcohol and clean the latch shelf.

The Max at 100 yards and 4 to 5 inch groups is still minute of deer. Not great, but doable. YMMV on that take.

Cartridges for My Entertainment: 22lr, .223 Rem, 30-06, 380 ACP, 38 spcl, 357 mag/max, , 35 Remington, 35 Whelen, 358 Norma Mag, 10mm Auto, 45 ACP. Mmmmkay what project can I do next... oh, I can't right now I am going hunting!
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