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New HD Electric Bike

2K views 50 replies 12 participants last post by  Argent11 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Not sure what H-D is trying to do here. There are equal or better E-bikes out there for about a third less money. I don't see older H-D fans going for this and most younger people won't have that kind of money to spend. Like they are sitting this up to fail.
GuzziJohn
 
#6 ·
I'm with Guzzi and Dee. HD will sell a handful of them just because but they will never pay for the tooling cost.

I can see that electric scooter selling fairly well if they can keep the price down. I have often thought of electrifying Mr Goat, the fat tired trail scooter I built for hunting and general work on the farm and home. I stop and start a lot doing work and not having to pull start it 20 to 30 times would be nice.
 
#7 ·
If the live wire had been priced more like the street 500 and 750, it would be much more attractive. It would be a dream for commuting. Practically no heat buildup at stoplights, quick, responsive... but I haven't read specs on how long to charge, and how much fossil fuel it takes to produce that charge.


Solar charging would be good, but would likely take WAY too long.
 
#9 · (Edited)
All the old, fat, die hard Harley riders are fading from the scene. Harley is looking for something that appeals to young riders that don't care for the bad-ass hog rider concept and they have to start somewhere. I admit that it makes little sense for my immediate area. I can see where it would work for Argent's area as the town is large enough for them to be handy. The powered mountain bike should garner some followers. Knock fifty years off me and I would be all over one. The world is changing and companies have to change with it or die. I wish them success.


Equal or better out there? By whose standard?
 
#35 ·
yup the typical Harley rider sure wasn't what it was in the 70s when I started. Then in the 80s you waited 3 years to get one and sure didn't have a choice of color or options you took what you were offered or someone else got it. Typical Harley driver now is some kid who decide hes cooler on a Harley then he was on his crotch rocket and it lets his girlfriend wear chaps! See them all the time. Brand new set of leather. Typical owners is a city boy who makes good money sitting in an office all day and wants to pretend hes a man on weekends. Never know some of those idiots might want it. I remember when the v rod came out. We all said it would be a one year thing because who would want one. We even chuckled at the ultra glides with there Bluetooth and cruise control. My back made it impossible for me to ride anymore 12 years ago and to be honest I don't miss it a bit. Its worse then driving my jeep out on the road. Everyone thinks your some kind of brother of theres or were all a big bike gang and waves. EVEN THE GOLDWING GUYS!!! Just like your typical tourists up here in there 4 door jeeps. 95 percent of them are a bunch of yuppies I have nothing what so ever in common with. Anymore I have as much or more respect for the typical good wing or bmw driver. At least there not trying to be a poser.
All the old, fat, die hard Harley riders are fading from the scene. Harley is looking for something that appeals to young riders that don't care for the bad-ass hog rider concept and they have to start somewhere. I admit that it makes little sense for my immediate area. I can see where it would work for Argent's area as the town is large enough for them to be handy. The powered mountain bike should garner some followers. Knock fifty years off me and I would be all over one. The world is changing and companies have to change with it or die. I wish them success.


Equal or better out there? By whose standard?
 
#15 ·
Not the Livewire, the smaller electric mountain bikes. Supposed to be a few thousand, not $10k, $20k or $30k.

Quote from cycle world article:

In the end, the hope is that these concept machines remove some of the barriers to motorcycling and attract new riders. You wouldn’t need a motorcycle license to operate them, and with a lower weight and more accessible form, the ride is easier and the learning curve reduced. And if they come with a removable battery that can be recharged with a household outlet, that’s icing on the cake. Whether they become production models is unclear, though Harley did promise that future models would carry prices as low as “a few thousand dollars,” which might make all the difference.
 
#16 ·
Those bikes would be a lot of fun to play around on but would have little practical day to day use unless small town commuting which they might be great for. For "real" road machines the H-D looks like big hat and little cattle compared to some other offerings that had no where close to the R&D that H-d has and had beat them out of the gate.
GuzziJohn
 
#17 · (Edited)
The electric mountain bike would be great for short range travel around a small town, working around a large construction site or on a military base. Also would be fun to take hunting or fishing. Easy to transport in a vehicle.

On the highway, no. Just be safe and stick with a metal cage and 4 wheels. Too many aggressive drivers out there. Motorcycles are not my choice for the highway.
 
#19 ·
Too many distracted drivers today. The recent stat was that 64% of road collisions involve distracted drivers, and that distracted driving is six times more likely to result in a collision than drunk driving. Drunk driving still accounts for more fatalities, but distracted driving fatalities are rising fast.
 
#20 ·
Well Conan, not that it matters to you but, we don't often agree.

Concerning your last two posts I DO AGREE with much of what you said.

Harley Davidson has indeed, priced itself out of many folks budget.

You don't see many kids driving Corvettes for the same reason.

I will say that when the suspension on an HD is properly adjust for the riders body weight, not many brands ride much better.
Also, and it varies depending on areas, service is a factor. Most Harley dealers have roadside service.

As for the "hazards of textors" on the road. I sold my Harley under load protest from Linda.
 
#21 ·
Well Conan, not that it matters to you but, we don't often agree.

Concerning your last two posts I DO AGREE with much of what you said.

Harley Davidson has indeed, priced itself out of many folks budget.

You don't see many kids driving Corvettes for the same reason.
I said nothing like that. What I said is that they have a demographic problem and their traditional market that was defined during the 1980s is drying up. I also said that they are entering new markets that are more affordable, and are aimed at younger customers.
 
#23 · (Edited)
The best market for electric bikes I've seen is dirt bikes. Lower maintenance, plenty of low-end grunt. Enough charge for an afternoon outing in the back woods. Hose it off, stand it up in the garage, and there's not much else to maintaining it except chain lube and tensioning occasionally. The street bikes I've seen have very little range, including the expensive models. They're OK for people who want to ride down to the local watering hole and then maybe have a drag race or two.

As for noise pollution, that's because people are illegally modifying the exhaust systems. Sound limits are regulated for stock motorcycles. If you hear a loud road motorcycle, it's because the inconsiderate turd that owns it has made it loud deliberately to create noise pollution. Back around 1974 new Harleys could not pass California noise pollution standards while coasting with the engine shut off. The newer models are reasonably quiet with stock exhaust systems.
 
#26 · (Edited)
They didn't price themselves out of a market, they priced themselves into a lucrative market for 50 to 70 year old riders. That market is weakening, and they need a new market if they are going to survive. Although HD has worldwide sales, the problem with almost all, if not all, countries they sell in is that they have the same problem of an aging demographic.

Dee, what I'd like to know, since you have actual work experience at HD, is what they're doing and what they see their market being in ten years. A lot of the customers they have now will be more in the market for assisted living and medical care by then. Do you think they'll be able to attract younger customers?

I think it's a definite maybe. HD currently has about half the US motorcycle sales, which includes sales of off-road motorcycles. That means they have a larger than half share of the road bike sales. The thing I can't read is whether younger people even want or will want motorcycles.

There used to be a huge variety of motorcycles on the road, from little Honda 70s and 125s. 350 and 400cc bikes were very popular. Now, almost 100% of the motorcycles I see in Minnesota and in the south are Harleys or Harley clones. Sure, there are some 500s and some Ninja type bikes, but I don't see many of them. That suggests to me that interest in motorcycles is low, or at least a lot lower than it used to be.

Likewise with dirt bikes. I still see an occasional pickup loaded with dirt bikes, but more often it's with 4-wheelers like hunters use.
 
#28 ·
They sure not as popular with the young people as they were back in the 1970s . The small community I live in was known for motorcross racing across the nation back in the 70s . people from as far away as California would come here to ride . Some of the local boys even got sponsorships to go pro . You name it Honda ,Yamaha , Kawasaki you name the brand and it was probably there . There hasnt been a race here in many years . There still some young riders around but far and few . Just last year one crashed and had to be flown out . his leg had to be amputated .
 
#27 ·
It looks like they really improved the range of the LiveWire from their early pre-production model. 146 miles in the city now, which probably translates to 80 for general riding.That's not bad for a casual outing, especially on a bike that looks like its seat was inspired by the old Kawasaki 20-miles-until-your-butt-goes-numb seats.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/electric.html
 
#31 ·
For the record, MY Harley has stock quiet exhaust, but the fact remains, most old riders like the Harley noise...


Young riders like bike noise too, except they want it to be a screaming 4 cyl…


DM
 
#37 ·
had to chuckle yesterday. I was on my way home from mowing grass at the cemetary. there was a group of about a half a dozen Harley trikes and one guy taking up the slack in the back with a trike with ape hanger bars. Now how fricking stupid can you be. A geriatric Mexican hells angel. Wonder if he had a prius at home with hydraulics??
 
#38 ·
"A geriatric Mexican hells angel." :tango_face_grin:



I still see some bikes with ape hangers but never have seen a trike so equipped. I never could understand why anyone would want to use something like ape hangers. My son-in-law used to use them. He said 'they are so comfortable". I told him "b---s---. He finally smartened up after his shoulders stated dealing him misery and quit them and now he's given up riding altogether. Had sunstroke and can't take the heat anymore.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Apes, don't knock em unless you've tried 'em. It's all about height and width and overall geometry of the ride. Most guys who are over 6 feet like 16 inchers, and guys shorter than 6 feet tend to like 12 inchers.

Here is the apehanger configuration that will rot your eyeballs out, not just because the apes are on a sport bike, but because the guy seated on the bike demonstrates a bad apehanger installation. When they're above the heart, they're going to be very uncomfortable, guaranteed.
 

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#41 ·
Apes, don't knock em unless you've tried 'em. It's all about height and width and overall geometry of the ride. Most guys who are over 6 feet like 16 inchers, and guys shorter than 6 feet tend to like 12 inchers.

Here is the apehanger configuration that will rot your eyeballs out, not just because the apes are on a sport bike, but because the guy seated on the bike demonstrates a bad apehanger installation. When they're above the heart, they're going to be very uncomfortable, guaranteed.

That's pretty much what the wanna-be ****'s angles run around here. Hands up above their heads by at least 6". True ape (or dummy) hangers. I never seen them on any thing but a Harley or the jap Harley clones though.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I've got a pretty sharp eye for motorcycle types and brands, and I'll tell ya, about 8 out of 10 cycles I see are H-D. Not lookalikes either. Actual Harley motorcycles. Most of the others are Can Am 3-wheelers or adventure bikes. After that, sport bikes. I rarely see a Goldwing anymore, and those I do see are typically 20+ years old. Likewise BMW touring bikes. I hardly ever see one that is less than 20 years old. I drive in about 20 states, so it's not just in one region.

I keep reading that Honda sells a lot of motorcycles, but I'll be darned if I see many of them.

One thing I want to know about Harley is how they can have so many big dealerships. Their dealerships are huge, the parking lots are usually empty. What's up with that? It seems like there are way more dealerships than potential riders can bear.
 
#43 ·
Well...H-Ds are the most common out and about bike in the USA, so that is what you are going to see the most of. That why it is so much fun to go to a bike event on a Moto Guzzi. It can be surrounded by dozens of custom H-Ds, but the Guzzi gets the attention, especially my older one.
Concerning H-D dealerships. A day of reckoning may be coming for many of them. Starting about 20 years ago the H-D mothership severely upped the dealership requirements, hence all the fancy large dealership sites. Back then the market was hot enough to support most. Also remember that H-D dealers make a **** of a lot of money on accessories and service. Dee should be able to share more light on this.
In my area most of the Japanese dealers make most of their money on ATV sales, not motorcycles.Also remember Honda is selling many dirt bikes your not going to see on the road and they have huge sales world wide.
GuzziJohn
 
#44 · (Edited)
Conan is right about that. Some of us are just getting to old to ride the big bikes anymore. And we don't want the trikes or the spiders. Mazda was smart about that market with the Miata. I read where they were sold out before they ever get there. I love driving my wife's with the top down. The old codgers sports car lol. It's a blast. And hers still has a standard. I love it, feel of the road.
 
#45 ·
I don't want to see trouble for H-D, but the big dealerships are troubling. It reminds me of how places like Gander Mountain overbuilt and then crashed. The H-D dealer around here in central MN had a nice building that I would characterize as a normal size motorcycle dealership. They recently built a gigantic new building and moved in. It's right near where big box stores like Best Buy and gander, and a bunch of others have been going out of business almost monthly.

I understand the accessory and service sales, but the size of that building looks like it costs about five grand a month, at least, just for electricity and cooling. Probably more during winter heating. This is in a place where the riding season is about six months long, and a lot of that season has inclement weather.

I was a Honda mechanic back in the 70s, that's 1970s in case clarification is needed. The big change then was when the dealership started selling the little Honda cars. The cars were popular enough, and then a few years later, they expanded to sell the new generation of Honda cars at the time. They were sensational. We loved those cars. They were excellent, except for the rust problems that plagued every other maker at the time. The rest, as they say, is history. Those Honda dealers that made the transition into cars did very well for themselves.

Who knows, maybe H-D will start selling some custom looking low rider cars with a high cool factor.
 
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