Red Flag laws - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Default Red Flag laws

Some thoughts on Red Flag Laws

So-called “red flag laws” are said to benefit public safety by removing firearms from persons who have been judged “an extreme danger to themselves or others”. 17 states have already passed laws of this general sort and after the recent shooting incidents many more states and the federal government will be looking at such laws. It seems a very attractive “win,win” solution.
Offhand I find it surprising that such laws are even considered here in the USA. This smacks very heavily of “future crime” or “thought crimes”, punishing someone not for anything they have done but for what someone judges they might do. And who’s to judge? Well a judge of course.
Now wait a minute. Judges are presumed to be qualified to rule on points of law but here we expect a judge to hand down what amounts to a psychiatric evaluation and to make that evaluation on the spot and on a person they never previously met. Could even a trained psychiatrist make such a spot judgment with a reasonable degree of accuracy?
So, knowing himself unqualified to make such an evaluation the judge will almost certainly choose to ere on the side of caution by granting the request to prohibit the suspect from owning firearms. Better, it is reasoned, to infringe the constitutional rights of one than to risk the lives and safety of many.
I can understand that reasoning but I also believe that when the rights of one innocent person are trampled we all suffer the boot prints of tyranny.
And how about the “dangerous individual”? Well they remain free but are judged now to be no danger since they are denied the possession of firearms. That’s just silly. They are only denied the “legal” acquisition of firearms and if they are contemplating mass murder they aren’t much concerned about breaking laws. There are not only many ways to acquire forearms but many ways to commit mass murder without firearms.
Red flag laws are not likely to be of any significant benefit to public safety because they are based on the faulty presumption that firearms are the problem when it is in fact the criminal who remains at large who is the problem.

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:21 PM
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I don't think it can be summed up any better than that joe.

To paraphrase: "Those who would give up liberty for the promise of security deserve neither".
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 12:54 PM
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I don't think it can be summed up any better than that joe.

To paraphrase: "Those who would give up liberty for the promise of security deserve neither".
I still think laws like that will become a problem. Like with all the gossiping old biddies in a neighborhood
making up crap about someone and then someone else in authority takes them seriously. Judges in these
cases already bring in a court appointed shrink. My sister in law is one of those shrinks.

She has said it's ridiculous how many of these cases are just a waist of the courts time. And only damage
the accused. She had one last year, where a bachelor lived in a liberal neighborhood. And they all started
saying he was a crazy shooting threat, only because he was loner and a hunter/shooter and went to gun
shows and they saw him putting guns in his truck. Why did that case have to go to court?
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 01:18 PM
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Guilty until proven innocent.
Then they need to make it illegal for family members, and friends, of those red flagged to own guns.
Also, make it illegal for burglars to steal guns, and make it illegal for black marketeers to sell guns.
Oh wait! Those are already illegal.
Ok, no cars, trucks, buses, hammers, hatchets, pocket knives, kitchen knives, WHEW!

This ain't gonna work.

I think Trump may be about to make a bad move.
Hope not.

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To The Politician: if your not right with God, your not right for this country.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:01 PM
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If legitimate gun owners don't start to come up with a few ideas, these kind of things will be forced upon us. Eventually people want "something done and they don't really care if it works or not. If we just sit around and criticize without offering an alternative we may be stuck with whatever someone else proposes. Any ideas?
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 02:45 PM
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Most of the Red Flag Laws robs people of their property without due process which happens to be in direct contradiction to our rights under the Constitution of the United States.

Still living under the curse, but one of these days I will shed this body, be clothed with an immortal one, and everything will be good.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWBear View Post
If legitimate gun owners don't start to come up with a few ideas, these kind of things will be forced upon us. Eventually people want "something done and they don't really care if it works or not. If we just sit around and criticize without offering an alternative we may be stuck with whatever someone else proposes. Any ideas?

You are so right.


Only thing I think might help, is to not mention the name of the guilty parties, never post their faces. Call them something that sounds bad. Maybe tag them "the murderer". Reinstate public hangings for mass murders. If shame is increased for the acts, it may deter some of them looking for the notoriety.


I do believe mental health is an issue though. There have lots of these folks that had already been on someone's radar, but the laws don't let the LEOs do anything about them. I do not know what the answer is without stepping on the rest of our rights.


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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:14 PM
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I have an answer. Become Minutemen...
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:29 PM
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I have an answer. Become Minutemen...
Answer. Try to take them alive like drugging a wild animal. Public executions, hanging, guillotines, burning at the stake. No more mamby pampy executions.

Last edited by Argent11; 08-06-2019 at 03:40 PM.
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 03:31 PM
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Most of the Red Flag Laws robs people of their property without due process which happens to be in direct contradiction to our rights under the Constitution of the United States.
That's exactly right. And all criteria for triggering the red flag laws will be heavily abused. Own a gun and have a kid in the household? Red flag! Own a gun and bought alcohol during the past five years? Red flag!
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