Ford v Ferrari - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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Default Ford v Ferrari

What a ride, Iím still thinking about it hours later. They told their story well. Are there other stories they could have chosen? Of course there are, there always are.

If you have access to Netflix, do watch The 24 Hour War. A documentary about the Ford Ferrari fight, unrelated to and precedes Ford v Ferrari movie by a year maybe. Iím pretty sure it makes the movie flow better for the less well versed.

Well worth the time and money. Iíd have no problem watching it again just for the eye candy those cars are.



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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 06:59 AM
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I saw that..it was entertaining. It showed that given an interest and determination, the American owned manufacturers can do a great job on the racing circuit.

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 08:12 AM
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What are the highlights? All I know about it is that somebody at ford got mad at Ferrari because Ferrari didn't want to sell out to ford, and ford got inspired to make a good lemans car in retaliation. I don't recall seeing ford as a contender in lemans since then. It seems to be Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, mclaren, and a few other European makers, and the occasional Japanese maker.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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They put together another GT40 program a few years ago and spanked the field again.

If you are 90 minutes worth of curious watch the documentary 24Hour War itís on Netflix now.

F v F is basically a good story about egos. Henry Ford II, Enzo Ferrari, Lee Iacocca, Leo Beebe, Carrol Shelby, Ken Miles, and a few other notable racing figures. If you have any interest in cars or racing, if you ever looked at a Shelby Cobra and got a bit light headed the movie is canít miss. Rooting for the underdog strangely is rooting for one of the largest organizations on the planet.


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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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I saw that..it was entertaining. It showed that given an interest and determination, the American owned manufacturers can do a great job on the racing circuit.



.


Nice assessment. The point of the program had much to do with proving Americans can anything they choose to do. The fact they had not won Lemans was simply they had not decided to win Lemans, yet.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 12:26 PM
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How long ago was that?

I always root for the people who are consistently excellent in a sport (or any other endeavor). That takes a lot of determination and ability. Jack Nicklaus, is a great example. I don't like golf, but anybody that can dominate a sport for as long as he did has my greatest admiration. Likewise with the best racing organizations. It's that excellence that advances the sport.

With Le Mans, the drivers and the reliability of the cars are the most important factors, as I understand it. The cars are of course important too. So the questions I have about the ford wins is how they managed to get a good team together to beat the likes of the Ferraris who had well established teams.

What I want to know is where the heck is Lamborghini in all of this? All they seem to do is make foo foo cars for rich kids. They don't really have any racing cred, do they?

As far as I'm concerned, Ford can just stick with their F150s and mustangs. They are otherwise uninteresting to me as a car manufacturer. Likewise with GM and Fiat.

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Short answer they wrote Carrol Shelby a check. But it is so much more complicated. The Doc, go see the documentary.


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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 08:04 PM
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Short answer they wrote Carrol Shelby a check. But it is so much more complicated. The Doc, go see the documentary.


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Thanks for the tip. I don't subscribe to Netflix but I see that it may become available on iTunes soon. I'll check it out.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:46 PM
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Shelby and Holman and Moody were both given money to form race teams along with private teams with small-block GT40s.
The Shelby Cobra roadster had challenged Ferrari since 1962 for the GT World Champioship, finally taking away in 1965 with the Cobra Coupe, this put Ferrari and Ford talking with Ferrari finally saying go away.
The prototypes, Ford GT, Ferrari P - P2-P3 , and others less known were the class that replaced the GTs in 1966 and the rest is history.

The GT 40 Mk.II was a British Car with an American engine, but the Mk. IV in 1967 was a All-American car and when Dan Gurney and A.J. Foyt won LeMans, that was more than the F.I.A. org. that made the rules from Europe could take and they changed the rules that killed the bigger faster prototypes Ford, Ferrari, Alfa Romeo and other less known were preparing.
The new rules were still a bust as a Ford GT40 with a small-block Ford still won LeMans the next two years.

Recently Ford went back to LeMans, one of the main reason they built the new Ford GT recently, this year and won their Anniversary race in class.
Neither Ford , nor Ferrari have been major competitors in sport car racing for decades, Ferrari is now strictly privateer, with factory connections, and Ford comes and goes as it sees fit.
Chevy is building the new rear engined Corvette partly due to asinine GT regs. now strictly limit horsepower, if you are too good they penalize you, and they cannot employ the engine advantages they used to have and building a rear-engined car makes it easier for them to remain competitive.

As far as proving who build the better product, sports car racing is now meaningless under current regs., far, far more than even NASCAR.

A few years back, Roger Penske embarassed the rules makers.
There were two main, as far as speed classes, Prototype 1 and Prototype 2, obviously 1 is supposed to be the premier, faster class, well Penske read the rules closely, talked to Porshe and won the U.S. IMSA Champioship with a P2 Porsche.
Now rules are tighter and even more of farce as far as building a better car.

I have not seen it yet but from reports, by gents I post with across the pond who knew some of the gents portrayed in the movie, the portrayals are typical Hollywood think, with a lot of bs inserted, but the movies is worth the time.
To them, some of whom knew Ken Miles, that is who the movie is really about, and Ken Miles got screwed out the victory by a decision H. Ford made that Ford later said he greatly regretted, especially as Miles was killed testing the next generation Ford GT.

Way, way back in the late nineties, when Dodge decided to go racing with the Viper, their success , embarrassing the Corvette that had become a total boulevard cruiser as far as racing fans saw it, is the reason within a year for the first time in close to fifty years there was a factory Chevy Corvette racing team.
Before the current extremely restricted rules, after the factory Chevy was dominating its class, some Ferrari privateers ragged on the Ferrari factory hard to OK a private firm building a modified production Ferrari competitive enough that in 2003 Chevy had the first, and last, real competition after Dodge had pulled out.
The IMSA GT 1 championship went down to the last race and Chevy won by a slim margin.

Lamborghini made a half-hearted attempt but Maserati, another reason besides the Chevy domination for more asinine rules, made a very serious attempt with a car in the Dodge Daytona type limited production, and they dominated in Europe.
There were actually many small budget attempts by many, mostly small, obscure to those who are not sports car gearheads, manufacturers that made modified production GT racing from 1998-2005 extremely interesting.

RR

Last edited by Bob Riebe; 12-02-2019 at 11:48 PM.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan the librarian View Post
What are the highlights? All I know about it is that somebody at ford got mad at Ferrari because Ferrari didn't want to sell out to ford, and ford got inspired to make a good lemans car in retaliation. I don't recall seeing ford as a contender in lemans since then. It seems to be Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, mclaren, and a few other European makers, and the occasional Japanese maker.
As I recall, your version of Ford's entry into GP racing, was just as you said. If I caught the message from that film...Ford may be contemplating the racing scene again !

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I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion. (Alexander the Great)
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