A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others) - Graybeard Outdoors
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lehigh Valley of PA
Posts: 269
Send a message via AIM to 32 Magnum
Default A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

I wrote this posting on "another" forum, in response to a bunch of negative postings regarding collecting "junque" guns, which the poster(s) identified as Iver Johnsons, H&Rs, Hopkins and Allens, Forehand, Forehand & Wadsworth, etc. - you know - all the non-S&W/Colt/Winchester/Remington/High Standard etc. HIGH END collectibles. I offer it here, because I thought it was pertinent to this site, also. Although, we don't see as much "negative" crap here as on other sites. It's a bit long, but - I enjoyed rereading it this AM.

I think a general FYI is due here. I began collecting H&R firearms just about 16 years ago. At that time, prices were fairly low, because demand for these guns, as collectibles, was also low. I was able, for a couple of years to set my limit for purchase price at $100. The pricing guides available at that time, were woefully inadequate with respect to descriptions and information and well as pricing. As my collecting HABIT became more fixed in my psyche, I found myself in possession of most of the "commonly" available and lower cost examples, models and variants. I also found the prices rising a bit, from year to year - this from personal experience, not internet chatter or listings in so called authoritative guides. My collection expanded, as I became able to spend more on needed items. I found myself raising my bar to 200, then 500 and finally to over 1000 bucks for items that were scarce or were cross collectible. This often put me in "conflict" with S&W and Colt collectors, as well as generalist collectors. Over those past years, I have personally purchased over 600 H&R firearms, of all types and flavors - some of them quite rare and eminently desireable as attested to by the winning bids on on-line auctions, live auctions and gunshows, other collectors, etc. I became acquainted with several high level colletors of H&R specialty/rare/scarce firearms as well as several well known researchers/authors. During the past few years, as more information has become available both on-line and in print (primarily "THE BLUE BOOK..." rewrite) the interest in H&R firearms, as well as other "inexpensive" brands, has increased and the collecting of these firearms has driven the prices to higher levels. Over the past 3 years I have sold close to 200 examples of H&R handguns, of all ages and models, etc. - most being duplicates of better examples - and have only TWICE (out of approx. 200 times) either lost money or broken even (1 time each) with what I originally had invested in those pieces. Most of these ~200 items, were sold through one of the top on-line auctions and the remainder were sold, personally, by me at gunshows at which I worked with a couple friends who hold FFLs - in PA you must transfer ownership of modern handguns through a licensed dealer. In most cases my "GAIN on INVESTMENT" was 20 to 50% - in some cases it was as high as 142%. These returns are MEGA times better than any monetary investment that I've made in the past 30 years.
My point? Well, I'm saying that to baldly state that H&R, IJ, H&A, etc. firearms are cheap, inexpensive, poorly made S-N-S type firearms that don't sell for more than 100 bucks, is, well, just plain wrong. I've bought and SOLD H&R handguns for over $800. I've bought several shotguns for just under and just over $1000. I've bought several rifles (M1 Garands) for well over $1400 each.
I'm not suggesting that anyone should get into collecting any type of firearm and expect it to perform as well as my collecting/collection has - of course timing is everthing - but the fact remains - there are people interested in getting their feet wet in the collecting field and who don't want to spend their entire "poke" on one single example of a S&W Model 3 or Colt Model P SAA or a Winchester HighWall in 50-110, but would like to have several to many pieces of honest American historical firearms that show the development of that Industry over time.
I know this is long and probably boring to most readers, but I've been biting my tongue for years when reading the POOH-POOH that is written about H&R and other firearms of that class. Usually from people who have an agenda or bias towards the "QUALITY" collectible, in their estimation, firearms. Do what you want to do, but don't try to squash what others want to do.
I agree that the rewrite and repricing done for H&R firearms, beginning with the 29th Edition of "THE BLUE BOOK of GUN VALUES" by S. Fjestad, has gone a long way towards opening some folks eyes to the collectibilty and values of H&Rs. We need some "new blood" to get into the Hopkins and Allen, Forehand and Wadsworth, etc. collecting and research, so that these old venerables can take a rightful place in the collecting/pricing guides.
Thanks for reading.

Jim Hauff, H&R Collector and Researcher[/color]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Hauff, H&R Collector and Researcher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Hauff, H&R Collector

RIP Jim, passed away on October 12th, 2012

https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/172-gone-but-not-forgotten/221961-jim-hauff-aka-32-magnum.html
32 Magnum is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 01:06 PM
Super Moderator
 
quickdtoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SW Washington State
Posts: 50,664
Gun Cabinet
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Thanks Jim, keep up the great work!!

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" - Mark Twain
quickdtoo is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 09-24-2010, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 138
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Jim,
I read this on the "other" site also.
Well said!

Deceased 3-31-2012
jim ritchie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-15-2010, 08:21 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: safford az
Posts: 142
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

That's it in a nut shell!! I to have colected these little tresures and most of time there not in great shape but I have been able to revive them a little but more importaintly make them look and work well there not the the high end stuff but I can afford to buy one once in awhile fix the action and with little or no money to lose
kid buckskin is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-18-2011, 10:50 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DFW
Posts: 7
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Hi Magnum,
That was some interesting reading and not boring at all.
It has perked my interest up from a new recent model Handi- Rifle owner to maybe trying to collect a few if it's still feasible to try and do.

Proud Member of the NRA and TSRA.

Christian by Choice,
American by the Grace of GOD.
Tx-XDm is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-02-2011, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lehigh Valley of PA
Posts: 269
Send a message via AIM to 32 Magnum
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Hi Tx-XDm,
Thanks for the support. H&R collectible handguns are still out there is more numbers and varieties than I can remember seeing in a long time. Looks like the cork is out of the bottle. Prices have jumped pretty well over the past couple years - but it is still possible to begin collecting the "common" pieces at reasonable prices - $150 for v.good down to around $65-75 for lesser condition. Large Variety means more chance to begin and expand a decent collection.

Jim Hauff, H&R Collector

RIP Jim, passed away on October 12th, 2012

https://www.go2gbo.com/forums/172-gone-but-not-forgotten/221961-jim-hauff-aka-32-magnum.html
32 Magnum is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 07-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Machesney Park,N Illinois
Posts: 4,142
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Jim thanks for reviving this post can't believe I missed it the first time. I agree 100% and am glad you are here for us. I know when I first started collecting the H&R's there were snickers but when you really start to get into them you don't here that much anymore . Although my collecting is pretty much limited to examples that I will still hunt with a few of them have got me being really careful when taking them out. Thank you for being here to give freely of your knoweldge. Kurt

Sportsters22LR,17M2,17HMRVersapak20"Nickle410Tamer ,26"410,26"28ga,26"20ga
20TII,32"12ga,WTUTI12ga,WTU30.06Ultracomp,RMEF3040 Krag,M158 22RemJetM15830-30 24"UltraFluted204
,M157 22Hornet,.223UltraFluted,22-250AI,SSBull243,7.62x39,26"25/06,45/70Shikari,45CCarbine,38-55BC
22"303Brit stub.32H&Rmag,.32Huntsman2.45's,SS.50,2.58&#0 39;sand12gaHuntsmanMuzzleloaders
NEF RevolversSSModel73.32H&RmagBlued Model73.32H&R mag we are still growing!!
"SOLI DEO GLORIA"
PHATINJUN is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 04:13 PM
Senior Member
 
jpshaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,191
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

Shoot. Everyone snickers at me for hunting with an NEF shotgun. In fact after I told someone that I actually owned a Browning A5 he replied; "why in the world do you hunt with that thing for" My reply to him was the same as for anyone else. I enjoy carrying and shooting it more. There was a mention of "Image" that I thought was the dumbest reason I have ever heard for selecting a firearm.

Too soon old . . . Too late smart.
jpshaw is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 12-13-2015, 02:43 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 22
Default Re: A few thoughts and facts on Collecting (H&Rs and others)

I also love H and R's since i was 10 when i got my first gun a topper model 58 410, i love topper models and have recently started buying them, i have 5 so far (until the next gun show) when i go to a gun show thats all im looking for because everyone else walks on past them, but i love them and will keep buying all i can find
rebeloutlaw is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Graybeard Outdoors forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome