NYS definition of "proficient" - Graybeard Outdoors
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-17-2020, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Default NYS definition of "proficient"

I've signed up and paid for Utah/Fl concealed carry course and have to show how to use firearm. I never had to shoot for accuracy for my present license but now I'm told you have to prove proficiency. Is there a required accuracy test, and how is that defined?
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-17-2020, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebal View Post
… ... I'm told you have to prove proficiency. Is there a required accuracy test, and how is that defined?
I do not have a CCW in Nevada, so I cannot say upon any solid base about required accuracy, et cetera. What I can say is that one day I was at a public range. Two men arrived, set-up two silhouette targets, stood about fifteen feet from their targets, shot an entire magazine from each of their handguns, took-down their targets and departed the range. I asked them as they left, what was that all about. They replied that they had to shoot at least one magazine at a humanoid target to complete the course and get the permit. With that, I'm going to suppose that "acceptable accuracy" is most of the shots fired from a "combat distance" to hit the cardboard target. Take what I have written for what it might be worth...
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-18-2020, 03:20 PM
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rebal: go to your County Clerks website and scroll on down to pistol permit recertification course, or something like that. It is on line and has been on line for a while, so you can find it. Or, you can probably just Google Pistol Permit re-certification course and get the course of fire. I recall the first stage is 10 rounds in 40 seconds at 15 yards on a 11 inch circle (or maybe 9 inch, don't really recall). Anyhow, this is for your local county in new york and I am the former Mikey, and we both live here so I know..... (I looked it up....). Anyhow it is there and available. Some courses of fire do not seem to make sense to me but I did not design the protocol.
I also have both the Florida and Utah permits but have never yet had to qualify. Apparently they accepted my military history as a earlier qualification but I have not yet been approached or told to re-qualify. I wonder however if this is not a part of the state police policy on permit re-certification.
Anyhow, I gotta tellya that I have wondered if this state was gonna do that to us older types who still pack daily without restriction and in that regard, I am preparing myself for a re-certification course of fire. First, I have to let you know that such a requirement totally frosts my butt and I have absolutely no problem making that point and I intend to use one full sized mil-spec 1911 in 38 Super for my re-qualification, when and if ever it comes. I chose the pistol because it is what I carry. I chose the caliber because it is one of the most obnoxious sob's in an indoor range and if I have to go re-qualify because some idjit thinks I should, I fully intend to make the entire waste of my time the most unpleasant I can provide. And since we both know what the first course of fire is, I fully intend to practice so that my target comes out looking like a 'frowny' face with a bullet hole between its eyes. I mean hey guys, it's only 15 yards and then they want you to close up the distance and time on down to 10 yds and then 5 then 3. Factory ammo only it says yet it doesn't say what you can practice with....... as long as they hit in the same place. .... Anyhow, the course of fire is on the county clerk's website. Good luck.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-20-2020, 09:59 AM
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I have had a permit in NY, got it in 1970 just paper work ,photo and prints. . I also have a LEOSA HR 218 for 50 state carry, for the HR 218 I do have to qualify each year.

The course of fire you described is what we used to fire in the police combat shoots. You would be amazed how bad some people can do when they are timed and under some pressure.
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-21-2020, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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When asked, my instructor said he just wants to see how you "Handle" your firearm but you still have to demonstrate your shooting style. I have had an unrestricted NYS license since 60's but I'm not that confident with accuracy on my new .40 S&W. I'm not sure if this FL/Utah program is a "Certificate" or a required "Course" to complete. I wonder if there is a multi-state standard for accuracy; I believe NYS now requires accurate shooting test for unrestricted permit. After paying $200 for this program I would hate to fail accuracy test.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-21-2020, 02:31 PM
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well, here's how it goes. Make sure the pistol you use to re-certify with is one that you can accurately complete the course with. If your 40 whatever isn't accurate enough or if you're not accurate enough with it then shoot/use one that you are. And practice. Sorry, don't whine about not being able to shoot it or whether it's accurate enough, make sure you can; practice.
I do not recall either Florida or Utah requiring a live fire course to demonstrate firearms proficiency. Possibly something has changed over the years but I keep abreast of this stuff and have not yet heard anything like that at all.
As for that 'Instructor' - if it is oh so very important for him to see how well you handle your pistol, ask him if he wants to hold your target for you or, get another instructor. As for a multi-state accuracy standard - you gotta be kiddin'. Cops cannot even decide which coffee to drink, donut to eat or shady spot where to take a nap, there is no such thing as a multi-state standard for accuracy. C'mon, is the quarantine getting to you or something?
It is not a accuracy shooting test as much as it is a cop test, and solely to see if you can shoot as well as a cop can (or cannot) under pressure and considering those two nyc cops who shot that one guy and wounded 9 civilians I'm not so sure I want to be included with idiots like that.

I mentioned before that the first stage is 10 rounds in 40 seconds at 15 yds on a 11" or 9" circle - practice for it. You buy the gun, you buy the ammo, shoot the dang thing and make certain you can hit with it or shoot one you can hit with. I said I intend to use a 38 Super Auto for my range qualification, if it ever comes, because it is obnoxious indoors, hotter than most anything else they will encounter and because I can shoot smiley faces at 15 yds. Yes, I can draw a smiley face on a 9" target circle at 15 yds. so 11" shouldn't be a problem. The trick is to get it to frown after you have put one between the eyes.

One other thing to remember is that if you ever have to go for a re-certification course of fire - YOU'RE THE ONE SHOOTING! You don't have to suck up to anyone or kiss anyone's butt. They are there to do their job which as I see it infringes on your rights and prior demonstrated qualifications, not to mention your time and money, and you're the one with the loaded gun. Your only source of stress should be the clock, not any of them. ****, you were probably shooting before some of those idiots were even wet spots but they are going to flaunt their authority in some feeble attempt to be seen as in charge, so your words and actions should drip with disdain, and righteously so. They are wasting your time, plain and simple, and if you can 'smiley face' that target then you can dang well shoot any course of fire they can come up with. So just practice for it. Don't worry about it, just practice for it and shame the snot outta them for even thinking they somehow had one up on you.
The last thing - after you shame the snot outta any of them with a 'smiley face' target you don't have to be rude, you can invite them to your range so they can learn how to shoot. I said so.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 04-24-2020, 12:33 PM
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OK, I did some more checking. It is a 9" target, not 11 inches. Also, in reading the discussion it appears that the licensing judge in this county would prefer to see those issued a unrestricted concealed carry permit to be able to shoot at least as well as the police do ( or don't). I think that makes him feel better in the 'feel good' department to know that those of us who carry aren't just out there slingin' lead but actually hitting what we shoot at. Really? I always thought we were more on the 'conserve ammo' side of the idea.

The discussion also specified that you need re-certification if your permit was issued before 2013 or 2015 but after that you're ok?? I'm still not sure if the re-certification issue is based on the date you provided your information to the state police which would have been before Jan/18., but may well be.

Your instructor: possibly a better choice of words for him would have been - 'I need to determine that you can handle your firearm safely', which is perfectly acceptable for a instructor. But I still believe this is a 'cop test', which I really don't appreciate, however if I gotta then I gotta. And now that we can wear hearing protection, any verbal stressors applied during qualification can be so seriously muted that it surely will not be like that drill instructor in advanced training who like the way your eardrums vibrated when he 'spoke' at you.

I would still suggest lots of regular practice. The shorter distance courses of fire are not as challenging even if the time allotted is short once you can place all your 10 shots into the target at 15 yards in 40 seconds at the beginning of the re-certification. That's my thinking anyhow, yet I practice each of the required courses of fire.
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