"Ghost guns" - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Default "Ghost guns"

Anyone hear or know anything about them? (Moderators; feel free to post this thread where most appropriate) I just read article about this and thought it was NEW but apparently I am late to the scene. Ghost guns are both long guns and handguns sold on the internet as "Kits" and are a set of up to 80% complete along with tools & instructions on how to build and assemble. They have no serial #'s and are untraceable. Many are showing up in various police departments nationwide. I would like to learn more about this if anyone can add to this discussion....
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 09:56 AM
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I played w/ the Polymer 80 Glock 17 w/ mixed results, most positive but moved on from them to reliable factory frames.
Had issues w/ Tac - Sol top ends in .22lr, not locking to the frame but standard 9mm ran fine, suppressed had several issues w/ lockup.
Takes time to work them in since the mill ends only take them down so far.
Would not due an AR unless it was metal and stripped lowers are pretty cheap now around $45, 80% are far more.If you are worried about them coming for your guns and want to be off the radar, better reload cause they will eventually track ammo purchases.

When it absolutely needs to be there, reload

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 09:12 PM
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Even on the internet the "heart" of the gun which is needed to make it shootable has to have a serial number and be shipped to a FFL..
That said, you can buy many gun parts. I just bought a sear for a Remington 511, but if I'd wanted an action it would have gone to my FFL.

And, I wish it was like pre 68 when you could order complete guns from Sears Roebuck and others.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 10:37 PM
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The polymer 80 frames for Glocks and ARs don't have serial numbers and do not have to ship to an FFL.



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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 11:27 PM
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Just more hype. Many older guns had no ser#. I've had some factory guns that had no ser# and were completely "untraceable". A good portion of the firearms I have if traced would end at a deceased person. So even though they perhaps were in the system at one point they are no longer. It is also perfectly legal for a citizen to make a firearm if they can legally own one. This is basically an attempt to get all guns registered which won't do a thing to prevent criminals doing what criminals do. Back when ar15 80% lowers were $40 and a lower was $100 I milled out a few. I also stamped (though not required) them with maker, model, cal, ser# in case they were ever stolen they could be returned or at least have a better chance at it. Current prices you can usually find a 100% receiver as cheap as the 80% lowers.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 08:12 AM
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I don't see the sense in it. A manufacture can do less work not finishing a lower and actually charge more then one already done??? I can buy a bare lower for an ar15 for 40 bucks. An 80 percent one cost near twice that. Why would I care that they cant trace it. Im not using it in a bank robbery. Id also not want the hastle of explaining to a judge and jury why I shot someone with an non serialized gun I was carrying. Id guess youd have strike one against you the minute that was revealed. Some do it because they like to play and build things. I can see that. I like building ar15s but part of the reason is it makes them cheaper for me to own. Worried about confiscation? Why? Bury the gun out back and tell the police you sold it to someone two days after you bought it. Theres no law you have to remember who you sold a rifle to. Brings up another disadvantage to the 80 percent guns. You cant sell them. They need a serial number to be sold. Sell one to someone and he gets caught with it and tells the police you sold it to him and your going to the federal prison. My guns come and go all the time. I lose interest in one and want a different one so there brought to the gun shop and traded. One you build your stuck with. I guess id look at it with a different opinion if I could save a 50 bucks but spending 50 bucks more for the privilage? no thanks.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugeye View Post
Even on the internet the "heart" of the gun which is needed to make it shootable has to have a serial number and be shipped to a FFL..
That said, you can buy many gun parts. I just bought a sear for a Remington 511, but if I'd wanted an action it would have gone to my FFL.

And, I wish it was like pre 68 when you could order complete guns from Sears Roebuck and others.

With the 80% receivers and lowers, you are the manufacturer. Just like you can produce wine and beer and spirits for yourself. You can by law make your own firearm as long as it it deemed legal per BATF statues.
The catch is if you sell or gift to another you need to place a unique serial # on it and that person can legally possess it.
Your are now a firearms producer and open a new can of worms, hello excise taxes.

So no it does not need to be serialized unless it is moved to another other then the manufacturer.

When it absolutely needs to be there, reload

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...k-14432598.php So this is more "FAKE NEWS"?

Last edited by rebal; 09-16-2019 at 10:23 AM. Reason: additional information
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justonemorear View Post
With the 80% receivers and lowers, you are the manufacturer. Just like you can produce wine and beer and spirits for yourself. You can by law make your own firearm as long as it it deemed legal per BATF statues.
The catch is if you sell or gift to another you need to place a unique serial # on it and that person can legally possess it.
Your are now a firearms producer and open a new can of worms, hello excise taxes.

So no it does not need to be serialized unless it is moved to another other then the manufacturer.
Federally, you do not need to place a serial # on an 80% weapon if you sell it, unless you are in the business of selling them. The thing is, there is no meaningful way to differentiate the commercial seller from a hobbyist getting rid of an unwanted completed 80% weapon. But if I completely assemble an 80% lower, I can later sell it without the addition of a serial number since here in TN the state does not require a serial number.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 03:34 PM
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I would say a good definition of a "ghost gun" is one that has been lost in the system. Sure it has traceability as long as it it is transferred through dealers, but once it has been sold privately without a dealer the provenance is lost. Sell it a few times and who knows who has it, until it goes back through a dealer it is a "ghost"
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