Are we a watchman?? Our brothers keeper?? - Page 50 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #491 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 05:42 PM
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There is no more need for me to bring solid proof of what the scripture says than for you. Nor am insisting that someone believe the way that I do. We are having a discussion.

It is interesting that you speak of God not needing to bifurcate himself and points to the influence of Platonic logic being applied to scripture in order to understand scripture.

This has been an error in theology since the beginning, applying human systems of thought to the Holy word of God. This is nothing more than trying to define God by limits of our understanding and experience even though He tells us that His THOUGHTS and WAYS are higher than ours.

It is easy to justify the form of partaking as simply and only a remembrance and then explain away any miraculous act being carried out simultaneously. One can be understood by human reason the other, body and blood cannot. It cannot because form isn’t definitive. To say that it must be is to say that God and all of Heaven is perfectly reflected by earthly entities.

There well may be, and I believe that there is, a point of tension that takes place in the elements. How is it accomplished? The human mind cannot and does not understand it because it has nothing to compare it to. It is received in faith which is the ongoing nature of our life in Christ.

Maybe you can prove that Christ, in some way beyond our comprehension, is NOT present.


I agree with much of what you said, and yes..we cannot/should not apply the Socratic method to solve spiritual

questions,but I must disagree with your last sentence.

I did not say that Jesus is NOT present, in fact I employed scripture to prove he IS present !

For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” (Matt 18:20)

.
Still, as I have said over and over, each an believe as he wishes, whether governed by the Bible or tradition.

I doubt it will seriously affect his/her standing in relation to eternal life...in other words,..no deal breaker.

More important in my estimation, is his/her Christian walk and employment of the great commission..

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"Politically correct" language, is really Orwellian 'newspeak'. (Michael Cutler)
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Last edited by ironglow; 09-26-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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post #492 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 07:39 PM
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I agree with much of what you said, and yes..we cannot/should not apply the Socratic method to solve spiritual

questions,but I must disagree with your last sentence.

I did not say that Jesus is NOT present, in fact I employed scripture to prove he IS present !

For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” (Matt 18:20)

.
Still, as I have said over and over, each an believe as he wishes, whether governed by the Bible or tradition.

I doubt it will seriously affect his/her standing in relation to eternal life...in other words,..no deal breaker.

More important in my estimation, is his/her Christian walk and employment of the great commission..

.
I feel like that is right IG. I feel like most of them just don't want to be involved in any kind of conflict.
Or condemnation in what they're relationship with Christ is. That only pushes them away.
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post #493 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 09:33 PM
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Pete please don't get involved in this. It has become an enigma, and I've never known you to ever be anything like that. Just sayin.
Ok, i will take your advice.
Pete

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post #494 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 11:14 PM
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Ok, i will take your advice.
Pete
It might be a good idea at this point.
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post #495 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ironglow View Post
I agree with much of what you said, and yes..we cannot/should not apply the Socratic method to solve spiritual

questions,but I must disagree with your last sentence.

I did not say that Jesus is NOT present, in fact I employed scripture to prove he IS present !

For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” (Matt 18:20)

.
Still, as I have said over and over, each an believe as he wishes, whether governed by the Bible or tradition.

I doubt it will seriously affect his/her standing in relation to eternal life...in other words,..no deal breaker.

More important in my estimation, is his/her Christian walk and employment of the great commission..

.
IG also said.

“I am trying to remain non-partisan denominationally, and just go where the scripture leads. As I said earlier however,

some are more driven by the Bible, some more driven by traditions. Since I am more on the Biblicist side, I realize we

are warned about traditions.”
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post #496 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 07:26 AM
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The above statements sound nice and reasoned and righteous.

According to what you have written you imply that you come to scripture as a free moral agent, without prejudice, presupposition, bias, tradition and simply “follow scripture”. To me the sadness is that you seem to honestly believe this of yourself.

You are driven by the Bible while those who disagree with you are driven more by tradition? Do you not recognize the utter bullshite of the statements that you have made? Do you really think that you sit so much higher than everyone else here?
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post #497 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 07:35 AM
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Do you notice where Jesus didn't end at "my blood", but "my blood of the covenant"..makes a difference !

. That is why instead of simply saying "this is my blood", he said this is my blood

Blood of the covenant refers to the blood of covenant between him and GOD and no matter how you spin it he said that wine WAS blood.


Instead of "this is my body he said this is my body?????? Why didn't he just say this is my body


Bottom line is most of the new testament scriptures were wrote AFTER Jesus was resurected. So the apostles had lots of time to think about that last supper. Im sure it was a night none of them forgot. Why didn't at least ONE of them right ONE thing about it not being the body and blood of Jesus. WHY? Because to a man they believed just what the Catholic church does. That Jesus was present in it. Ive seen many pages on two different threads of just dancing around a pole and vague scipture quotes that have nothing to do with it. Believe what you want (because that's what most of you base your faith on) but if this believe comes right from the lips of Jesus Christ. Ignore it at your peril. Either the bible IS the word of GOD or its a book wrote by men. YOU CHOOSE. But you cant pick and choose depending on what argument you in today.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!
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post #498 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:03 AM
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Christians live by the Bible and God's words, Catholics live by catholic tradition. Hard to talk and teach sense to those who have none.
No you don't. Ive proven that without a shadow of doubt. You follow man made opinions of the bible. Not the actual words in it. Its right there in black and white for anyone with a 3rd grade education in reading to see. YOU DOUBT JESUS CHIRST'S OWN WORDS. The Catholics are the ones who are living by the words of the bible. Not some man make spin off of the meaning of scriptures twisted and warped over and over by every little old lady at bible study and every preacher who wants to make a name for himself or drive a benz and live in a mansion and every bible scholar that wants his internet opinion to be quoted by gullible followers .


The catholic church believes the same thing they did a 1000 years ago and will still believe it a 1000 years from now. My guess is a 1000 years from now there will still be some pastor in some obscure parish who claims he finally got the true meaning of scripture and the 30 people in his parish will yell PRAISE GOD and the other couple thousand by then protestant faiths will say he got it wrong and they are the only ones that got it right.


That is if God doesn't tire of MAN telling him what he said and just condemns us all to **** like he did in Sodom and Gomora . So what is the bible?? THE WORD OF GOD? Or is it a book your allowed to shape to fit your agenda?? If you answer the WORD OF GOD then youd best start following it. Because you live by what your local traditions and a few people at bible study have decided not what it actually says. You don't believe what Jesus said at the last supper. YOU SURE don't obey his order to not judge, that that is his fathers job. You don't believe in Christian ACTS even though that was what Jesus was all about.


Seems to me the entirety of you bible use is finding vague scriptures to justify your sins and to condemn others and when your PROVEN wrong. You resort to simple minded insults. Laughable at best. But yet very sad. Come on. Lets see some more insults and judgements about what priests wear or that they burn incense because we all know that's more important then receiving the body and blood of Jesus Chirst!!!!!! The fire is very near. But it still not to late to move toward the light.


Like I said you guys have been measured and were found lacking. You have NOTHING. NOT ONE SINGLE THING A APPOSTLE WROTE that discredits the catholic churches belief on communion. Not even ONE! Not ONE SINGLE TNING that shows the apostles didn't believe they were receiving the body and blood of Jesus. ALL YOU HAVE IS MANS OPINIONS. So continue with your shallow personal attacks. LIVE YOUR LIE. You worship and quote David Arnold and ill worship and quote JESUS CHIRST!!!

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!

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post #499 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by littlecanoe View Post
IG also said.

"I am trying to remain non-partisan denominationally, and just go where the scripture leads. As I said earlier however,

some are more driven by the Bible, some more driven by traditions. Since I am more on the Biblicist side, I realize we

are warned about traditions.”
LC..surely you do not need studies in reading comprehension, since you seem to be very literate. ..But please re-read your quote of my words with highlights.

See for yourself that I claimed no corner on perfection..except in YOUR mind. Note: I said I am TRYING..

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"Politically correct" language, is really Orwellian 'newspeak'. (Michael Cutler)
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post #500 of 865 (permalink) Old 09-27-2019, 08:32 AM
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Sorry but I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you because of these statements alone but because of similar things that you have posted over the years.
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