Watch their heads catch fire....again. - Page 5 - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jparedes View Post
As a rule, and also not my liking, I don’t participate in political discussions, but I do read the entries on this forum and have noticed a constant in them:
The entries by TM7.
On analysis I find the following on his/her entries:
a) AntiSemite. Always bashing Jews or Israel.
b) Pro Islam. Always defending anything related to the actions of the Ayatholas, jihadists or Muslims in general.
c) Anti American. Always criticizing action of our Government, our Armed Forces.

Enough said.
Note: That is a classic example of the fallacy “argumentum ad hominem”....it is an attack against the man as opposed to an attack against his points of argument.
Even if every accusation that was made were true, that does not mean that what he said is wrong.
Note: that 150 billion dollars....taxpayer dollars? No. It was part of Iranian assets frozen by the USA. It was Iran’s money. There is no evidence that any money was shipped on pallets or in barrels.
That was an embellishment by candidate Trump....”creative hyperbole” (his term)

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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkgael View Post
Note: That is a classic example of the fallacy “argumentum ad hominem”....it is an attack against the man as opposed to an attack against his points of argument.
Even if every accusation that was made were true, that does not mean that what he said is wrong.
Note: that 150 billion dollars....taxpayer dollars? No. It was part of Iranian assets frozen by the USA. It was Iran’s money. There is no evidence that any money was shipped on pallets or in barrels.
That was an embellishment by candidate Trump....”creative hyperbole” (his term)


You are absolutely correct, I love TM7 arguments. They give a spark and encouragement to open discussion between different points of view.
But if it quacks, walks and swims like a duck, the “argument ad hominem” stands as “most probable” and not as fallacy.
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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" There is no evidence that any money was shipped on pallets or in barrels."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Just in case anybody wondered;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1


http://www.iran-daily.com/News/16704...3&title=167049

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/us...sh-iran-2.html

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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 05:36 AM
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t if it quacks, walks and swims like a duck, the “argument ad hominem” stands as “most probable”.....-
Most probable what? Your idea is incomplete. You are saying that attacking his character is the most probable....what?

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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 05:53 AM
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[QUOTE=ironglow;2055732802]" There is no evidence that any money was shipped on pallets or in barrels."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Just in case anybody wondered;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1


http://www.iran-daily.com/News/16704...3&title=167049

I should have written “boxes and barrels”. I stand corrected.
The first of those articles refers to monies sent to IRAQ by the Bush administration. Nothing to do with the 150 billion in question.
The second article refers to payments in various currencies that add up to dollar amounts but were not dollar currency - just in case anyone is imagining pallets of 100 dollar bills.
Also in that article is this:
“euros, Swiss francs and other currencies were flown into Iran in an unmarked cargo plane to cover the first $400 million.

Although the "mechanics" of the second payoff was not confirmed, it was most likely made in cash since the US has no banking relationship with Tehran, The Weekly Standard speculated.

A number of US politicians have accused Obama of paying "ransom" even though the money belonged to Iran.

Both Iranian and US government officials have stressed that the payment was unrelated to the nuclear deal struck with the Islamic Republic in July.

The sum returned to Iran, however, constitutes a fraction of tens of billions of dollars of the Iranian assets which the US has blocked since the Islamic Revolution.”

Despite popping up a half dozen times in this thread, there is no reference to any payment of 150 billion dollars or any figure close to that.

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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 06:22 AM
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it amazes me the extent to which some liberals ever here on a gun site will go to find some way to bash trump. They go so far as to defend Iran instead of there own country. If you think Iran and its leaders are so dammed nice why don't you move there and see how nice they really are!! Funny thing is that trump put the nix on this deal and your all up in arms. If he would have went along with it you would have been criticizing him for pandering to terrorists.


Real comical thing is when a few of you are pinned down and called what you are, A LIBERAL you get all defensive. Ill use someone elses quote " if it quacks, walks, and swims like a duck!" only one ive seen here with a big enough set to admit it is guzzi. It still boggles my mind that youd even want to hang around on a forum that 99 percent of the people don't agree with your thinking or even want you here. It would be about like me hanging around on a pro abortion site or an anti gun site. Laughable thing is ive been accused by some of you of being argumentive and stirring up crap. When in fact if I do a search of a couple members here (you know who you are) I find that 90 percent of your posting is on political posts and you are just here to push your liberal views.


Sure you might have a gun or two but you probably have to hide them in the closet when your friends come to visit. Bottom line is if you read through all the pages in this thread Ironglow has posted more links to prove his side of this then any of you people who have challenged his view. Trump is just a very bad man. Hes picking on terrorists. Oh wait, I may be asked to show proof that a trusted and peaceful ally like Iran supports terrorism!!Why don't you ask the mothers and wives of the americans theres responsible for killing! Oh wait its very doubtful that it was any of you that were effected. You were in college or sitting in your office when these real americans were giving there lives for you.


Ever wonder how many millions of dollars your sweatheart Hillary and her cohorts have cost us tax payers chasing Russian collusion and worrying about who trump slept with 20 years ago?? Have you ever even considered how much trump could have gotten done to make this country better if Hillary would have graciously admitted defeat and all if all the democrats and republican traders looking to better there carreers would have cooperated with him? She has probably caused the waste of more money then Obama gave away and has done MUCH more to divide this country then any politician since the civil war.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! STEEL FOR TANKS NOT FENCES!!!

Last edited by lloyd smale; 05-17-2018 at 06:43 AM.
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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 06:45 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=Darkgael;2055732914]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironglow View Post
" There is no evidence that any money was shipped on pallets or in barrels."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

Just in case anybody wondered;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1


http://www.iran-daily.com/News/16704...3&title=167049

I should have written “boxes and barrels”. I stand corrected.
The first of those articles refers to monies sent to IRAQ by the Bush administration. Nothing to do with the 150 billion in question.
The second article refers to payments in various currencies that add up to dollar amounts but were not dollar currency - just in case anyone is imagining pallets of 100 dollar bills.
Also in that article is this:
“euros, Swiss francs and other currencies were flown into Iran in an unmarked cargo plane to cover the first $400 million.

Although the "mechanics" of the second payoff was not confirmed, it was most likely made in cash since the US has no banking relationship with Tehran, The Weekly Standard speculated.

A number of US politicians have accused Obama of paying "ransom" even though the money belonged to Iran.

Both Iranian and US government officials have stressed that the payment was unrelated to the nuclear deal struck with the Islamic Republic in July.

The sum returned to Iran, however, constitutes a fraction of tens of billions of dollars of the Iranian assets which the US has blocked since the Islamic Revolution.”

Despite popping up a half dozen times in this thread, there is no reference to any payment of 150 billion dollars or any figure close to that.

Regardlessof the many "explanations".. the Obama administration took money that was being held to coerce Iran from their #1 terrorist nation, into a more moderate stance...and handed it over to the stubborn #1 terrorist nation.
Not only this, but he paid ransom for sailors which he should never have allowed to have been "captured", nor have allowed the Iranians to hold captive at gunpoint.
To add insult to injury, the RANSOM was paid in cash !

Moreover, the amount of money is not nearly as important as the fact that he paid ransom or released any funds at all.

As in the case of a molester, a perjurer or a bank robber..doing it only once or doing it often, earns the same reputation.

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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 09:58 AM
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“t amazes me the extent to which some liberals ever here on a gun site will go to find some way to bash Trump....” etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
It amazes me always what one gets accused of when they aren’t slapping the mainstream guys on the back with an “attaboy”. There is no room for divergent views. One either agrees with the mainstream view or one is labeled a commie pinko Hillary loving liberal wimp.

Personally, I try to stay away from the politics. I do react to generalization that leads to inexact conclusion. I do react to fallacy. I do react to rants which are often substituted for argument.
Y’know if posters would just take a moment to qualify their generalizations, I would not feel obliged to post.
Pete

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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Moreover, the amount of money is not nearly as important as the fact that he paid ransom or released any funds at all.
Agreed. If you had said that at the get go, I wouldn’t be posting.

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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 11:41 AM
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Ignorance will be our downfall.

I don't think of myself as a staunch Republican or Democrat.
I am a Christian and a Conservative...........In that order!
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