Fruits vs Gifts vs Offices - Page 4 - Graybeard Outdoors
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 10:39 PM
Dee
Moderator
 
Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 21,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironglow View Post
Dee;
Please note..just FYI..when I mentioned the name of my local church..it has no denominational reference, primarily because it is intentionally non-denomination.

..And no, I don't mind you deleted the name, it was not generic to the discussion anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now, for my post #28... I made a some claims;

1) Matthew, Mark , Luke, John and Paul did not attend any Christian university.

2) Don't tell us the apostles were different, because they had direct contact with Jesus.

3) Christian training centers, or universities did not develop for several generations.

4) During the first couple hundred years, Christians were busy hiding or preaching in secret places.

Now, if the poster I answered, disagrees with me..how do w go about settling the disagreement, since it would require other historic sources.

Or do we just agree to disagree, in such a case ?

.
Well, you may have shot the rabbit.

Bob set it up to fail, by not using scripture to form his argument.

He gave an opinion.

You gave scripural example, which is well within the rules, and which by the way, I agree with.

Bob has a problem proving his opinion , unless he can make his argument using scripture, which I don't believe can be made.

It's like I've said before BIBLE ONLY.

Some folks cannot discuss the Bible using only a Bible, or form opinions using only scripture.

And some opinions given concerning scripture won't stand in context with supporting scripture.

Just because someone says that's the way it is, doesn't mean it is.

Remember the bereans?

"REPUBLIC OF TEXAS"!
To The Politician: if your not right with God, your not right for this country.
Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty

Last edited by Dee; 08-10-2019 at 11:08 PM.
Dee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 06:30 AM
Senior Member
 
littlecanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,626
Gun Cabinet
Default

Sooner than later this approach will lead to conflicting views of a passage of
Scripture. Those conflicting views will result in competing views of God and man. Under this method of conversation, would that conflict be resolved or would it be left hanging?

Fundamentalism: The sneaking suspicion that somewhere, someone, might be having fun.
littlecanoe is offline  
post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 06:33 AM
Senior Member
 
littlecanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,626
Gun Cabinet
Default

Sooner than later this approach to conversation will lead to a conflicting view of a passage. That conflict will reflect an ultimate different take on God and his actions and or man and his actions. Based on this approach, will that conflict be solved or left hanging?

Fundamentalism: The sneaking suspicion that somewhere, someone, might be having fun.
littlecanoe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 07:05 AM
Senior Member
 
ironglow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: rural southwestern N.Y. State
Posts: 40,467
Default

As I see it, it would have to be left hanging, and not tied up with a neat little bow. ..But perhaps this is the way the forum was designed..to leave us wanting to still question, and do research for our own enlightenment.

.

"Politically correct" language, is really Orwellian 'newspeak'. (Michael Cutler)
.
ironglow is offline  
post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 07:42 AM
Dee
Moderator
 
Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 21,678
Default

This type of study isn't for the debater. Some ideas won't be accepted by others, but it won't be a free for all with dogmas, and doctrines coming from every direction.

If one is however, "looking for failure and flaw", in lue of study, they'll find it.

"REPUBLIC OF TEXAS"!
To The Politician: if your not right with God, your not right for this country.
Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty

Last edited by Dee; 08-12-2019 at 07:59 AM.
Dee is offline  
post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:39 AM
Senior Member
 
littlecanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,626
Gun Cabinet
Default

It isnít looking for flaw. Flaw is built in. So we end up with a opinion of scripture forum. There are many things I i scripture that cannot be understood contextualized within the confines of our existence and experience. Simple reading of scripture doesnít always provide a look into the original context.

Other tools become valuable to helping clear these things up. As the rules stand, and considering modern understanding, we are left with discussion of peopleís personal interpretations of scripture which will well conflict but must be accepted as gospel because they prayed about it and thatís where they were ďledĒ.

Itís a flawed approach. That may be why the sub forum isnít used much.

Fundamentalism: The sneaking suspicion that somewhere, someone, might be having fun.
littlecanoe is offline  
post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 11:59 AM
Dee
Moderator
 
Dee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 21,678
Default

littlecanoe,
The rules are clear, the explanation for the rules are clear, abide or use the religious forum if you prefer.
That this forum is incredibly slow speaks to the fact that many rely on "sources" other than the Bible. Not here.
Now. You have already sidetracked this thread with your opinion on the rules of the forum instead of the topic. I'm about to start using the delete button.

"REPUBLIC OF TEXAS"!
To The Politician: if your not right with God, your not right for this country.
Phil Robertson, Duck Dynasty

Last edited by Dee; 08-12-2019 at 12:24 PM.
Dee is offline  
post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:41 PM
Member
 
mtdotcomm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eastern Washington st.
Posts: 657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamnelson View Post
Rabbit trail over in Ephesians 6 seemed to be about gifts and offices. I recommended those folks start a separate thread, but I may as well since it was my recommendation.

Ephesians 4:16 on "gifts": Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Note that SOME are given to be pastors and teachers, SOME others to be apostles, SOME others to be prophets, SOME others to be evangelists. Everyone is not given these gifts, and not everyone necessarily gets any of these gifts, only SOME do. Christ does this, and its for the benefits of ALL. But only SOME get these gifts, and they line up with functions within the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12-13, Paul says more: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Again, all have the spirit, but to one is given one gift, to another is a different gift. But here it says in vs.7 that the manifestation of the Spirit, which is used synonymously with gift in the grammar, is "given to every man." These gifts then are of a different kind than the ones mentioned in Ephesians 4. These read like a particular ability or skill, while the Ephesians 4 reads like task or a role. The two may work together, but not necessarily so. One may have a manifestation of the Spirit, and not be given to be a pastor, teacher, evangelist, prophet, etc. Both passages indicate unique qualities that are not universally shared by all Christians, but two different types or kinds of gifts, again the ones in Ephesians associated with a role, while in Corinthians not so much.

What about fruits? Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." These are general fruits, expected of all believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit. There is no "some" or "to one" language here. This is for all of us to bear in our daily walk. And Paul indicates that against these there is no law, or regulation, or qualification ... depending on your version.

For the "gifts" in Ephesians 4, there are qualifications; prophets must be tested. Pastors and teachers must meet the qualifications in Timothy, and so on. For the "gifts" in 1st Corinthians 12, Paul later says that they may pass away, which implies they are seasonal ... but faith, hope and love will persist, the greatest being love.

Then along comes Peter, in 2 Peter:1, "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

This reads parallel to Paul's fruits in Galatians; these are things "given" to us by Jesus ... all of us .. and if they abound in us, we will never be "unfruitful."
Wow. Really good. thank you

"Fortitudine Vincimus"
mtdotcomm is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Graybeard Outdoors forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome