I have the 7TCU and 7-30 Waters both in Contender carbine. Love them both, but lets get real. The 7TCU will never be as fast as the Waters. Just cant do it. the Waters will have about the same recoil as the 30-30 when you compare same bullet size. Theres just no getting around those facts. Simple chemistry or math or physics, whichever. But lastly, love them both. Wallacem in Ga PS. I do get a little better groups with the Waters than I do with the TCU.