Is the 444M cal the best of three world's - Graybeard Outdoors
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Default Is the 444M cal the best of three world's

I started of considering to buy a 300 BLK.Then I spoke to a gunsmith and he said why not _44m then can do BP and then I ended up thinking why not 444m.

Each of us world's differ.I actually want to shoot casts,but maybe some
some copper stuff for plainsgame when the opportunity arises.

We have only one powder manufacturer here but it blew up last year and maybe it will be going next year.Some of your powders are showing up here but with our pathetic exchange rate... imagine you walk into your store and everything is 4 times more in price since your last visit.

So this is where the gunsmith came in and said then you can do BP and I though I things get out of hand I can brew my owns stuff, suppose if caught the sentence is 25 years incarceration.

But will this meet my three world's.
Can the 444m be just as accurate as a .30 cal?
I believe it would digest lead casts purty good???
It will outperforms the 44m if they go on a BP diet?

Or am I dreaming?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 01:48 PM
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Don't know where you are located but if it were me if you are wonting a reduced load like BP then I would go with Trail Boss if you can get it in your area mild report about the same ballistic wise as BP and clean and mild recoil


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:30 PM
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i'm sold on 444. the one i've been using is a tackdriver.
there are some posts in the reloading section from veral that
cover 444 that i found informative

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 03:56 PM
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I let a good buddy borrow my CVA 444 last deer season under one condition. I had faith in it to three hundred yards on deer but I had paid my dues at the range and knew where to hold on longer shots. My condition was that he shoot 50 rounds at 300 yards if he planned on taking a shot at a deer at that distance. He is quite accomplished with flatter shooting rifles so I knew it was just a matter of getting familiar the round.

He called me the second day of the season as he had anchored a nice buck at 267 yards with one shot. I let him talk me out of that rifle but I now have another.

444 is a great round!
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Friend it's not about reduced loads,it's about everything going down the drain here in South Africa.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 09:42 AM
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I suggest you move to the good ole U S of A... africans and others may give you a problem here too. But you will have the ability to defend yourself and you’re family... I realize you will have to give up some wealth. How much would you pay to live a better life?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 08:37 PM
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444M: in a single shot 444 the black powder should work well. One of our older members here, a long number of years ago, black powdered his 444 using something like 70-75 gns of powder under a 400 gn cast slug. I think he called it the 44-75-400 or something. If I wasn't shooting Winchesters, which are a pita to take down and clean if you're shooting black, I'd try it myself.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 07:20 AM
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I love the 444 and wouldn't be without one. Great with cast if you have the right gun. Many marlins are micro groved rifled and the rifling is a bit shallow for cast and not really ideal for heavy bullet loads. But that said ive seen some that made me into a lier. My outfitter though is ballard rifled and is a tack driver. Probably the most accurate lever gun ive ever owned. It can be loaded to handle everything from squirrels to the biggest and most dangerous animals in north America. Top end loads aren't quite what a top end 4570 will do but then recoil isn't top end 4570 either. Whats nice for long range is you can get good bc out of a 300-350 grain lfn comparable 4570 bullets would need to be 450 plus grains and pushing those over 1500 fps will give you a real appreciation for a recoil pad. My buddy wrote an article on his opinion of the 444 and ive found it to be the same. heres another by a man I feel is the wizard of cast bullets and one of the most technical minds in the gun world


Last edited by lloyd smale; 07-14-2019 at 07:25 AM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 08:06 PM
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Lloyd: You know I have to agree with you. I have three, all Winchester 94AEs, one custom 26" barreled, the second a former Black Showdow converted to a pistol griped full magazine tube rifle, and the third a Timber Carbine. I need a lower front sight for the Carbine to get it to zero at 100 yds with open sights and a 300 gn load; only two inches low now but even so...... First one was a Marlin with the micro groove barrel and I did not know about bore lapping or cast loads back then however, that took a lot of piggies in the Texas panhandle in the early 70s. Now however, I follow Marshall Stanton's works (Beartooth Bullets) on the 444 and find it incredibly informative and my guide for hunting loads, and most everything else 444. My former Black Shadow was cursed with the micro groove rifling and 38" twist but fire lapping that beastie ala Beartooth Bullets and Veral Smith now lets it toss those 300 gn cast gas checked slugs into just about the same hole at 100 yds. And that's at near 2300'/sec according to the Beartooth literature. If I scope my Timber Carbine she will put anything I can chamber into 1" at 100 yds. It is a phenomenal little woods carbine and I wouldn't hesitate taking it for medium sized bear. It has already put down some nice hogs.
One of the really nice things about the 444 is that whenever I feel like some lever - action but don't want to go full bore, I can toss most anything out at pistol velocities and not beat my poor old self up, too badly.
Oh yeah, it wasn't a 44-75-400 the fella called his black powder 444, it was, iirc, a 43-70-400 although he had gone to something like 75 gns of black powder he said he couldn't tell the difference in accuracy. And that's all I know, so far.......
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 06:30 PM
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Lloyd: did you happen to see the December 2018 issue of Handloader Magazine, with its 300 444 Marlin loads? Decent and informative but I would go back to the Beartooth website for data from Marshall Stanton's testing of the 444 with his cast loadings. A bit more than 300 loads were used to collect that data and he included accuracy data with each loading. As I recall, Stanton used a 444P Outfitter Model for his testing and I also recall his velocities being somewhat higher than those in the article and his accuracy findings were something to really crow about from a lever action. Just sayin'......
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