Tokarev tests for Self defense - Graybeard Outdoors
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Default Tokarev tests for Self defense

Took the Tokarev out to the range today and fired two different rounds to test for expansion and penetration.
First round was an 85 Gr PPU Hollow point at 1625 fps into milk jugs.It went through 3 and lodged in the 4th.
Round #2 was a Lead nose round point 85 gr. Not sure of the FPS as this one was loaded by a local loader.It penetrated 4 jugs and lodged in the 5th.

I was testing to see which would be the best to use for self defense.The hollow point expanded to just over 45 cal, and the LN just under.I didn't have enough jugs to test the Hardball stuff.Those things are like the energizer bunny. They just keep going, and going Both ran without a failure to feed.I think the HP wins out for SD.

I know this test really isn't scientific, but it got me out of the house and into the great outdoors, and it was fun!

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 11:36 AM
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The Tokarev would be fine for SD. All the Actuary tables seem to favor speed over weight or diameter also. The actual gun would be my problem with the round.

Too soon old . . . Too late smart.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-08-2017, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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The Tokarev would be fine for SD. All the Actuary tables seem to favor speed over weight or diameter also. The actual gun would be my problem with the round.
Actually I like the feel of the gun,(Romanian version) the trigger and the accuracy I get with it for SD. The sights are crude but effective for in close shooting. I don't like the add on safety they come with, and I don't carry with one under the hammer. I do like the gun for woods carry and keep one in the house at a strategic place. I like the slim design and the single stack 8 round mag holds enough to get the job done in most cases.It's old and metal and I like all steel guns.Something about plastic I detest."I know" Almost everyone on the planet loves the look and feel of the plastic ones, and they are proven.Just something about old war Horses I'm drawn to.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 12:44 PM
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I think if you're considering protection/penetration should be down on your list of thought? Too much can injure innocent by standers, while expansion should be high on your list? The 7.62X25 has always been known for it ability to penetrate soft body armour and nothing has ever been lacking in it's velocities. Now my Tok's trigger is nothing to brag about, I don't know about your guns? In today's world, it's single stack magazine is far from the norm but, it is your choice so, you'll have to make up your own mind? Not what I would choose to carry.
P.S. I find them fun to shoot and collect.
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"The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson." Life member of NRA, USPSA,ISRA,AF&AM #294 Mohamed's Shrine, and York Rite bodies of Bloomington Il. LIUNA #996 for the past 34 years,/now retired!
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 06:47 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by S.B. View Post
I think if you're considering protection/penetration should be down on your list of thought? Too much can injure innocent by standers, while expansion should be high on your list? The 7.62X25 has always been known for it ability to penetrate soft body armour and nothing has ever been lacking in it's velocities. Now my Tok's trigger is nothing to brag about, I don't know about your guns? In today's world, it's single stack magazine is far from the norm but, it is your choice so, you'll have to make up your own mind? Not what I would choose to carry.
P.S. I find them fun to shoot and collect.
Steve
Penetration is exactly why I did the test! I wanted a bullet that was going to expand with LESS penetration, and I found it in the PPU hollow point round.The trigger on my Romanian version is actually pretty nice, and I will carry the gun mostly in the woods, where I will use the lead nose round because over penetration isn't a problem.I believe in todays world people put too much importance in the number of rounds a gun will hold, and not enough on accuracy.Shooting your gun often and getting familiar with it is the ticket.I slept with an M1 for several years and it became a part of me.I realize as civilians we can't do that, but we should take them to the range often to keep at our best.JMO!

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:22 AM
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nw_hunter: Hornady and Sierra both make 85 - 90 gn round nosed soft pointed bullets for the Tokarev and 7.65mm Luger calibers.
I have tried some of the PPU hollowpoints in my Tok and was not impressed: some expanded, some did not however, the Hornady soft noses expanded nicely.

one other load that performs better than expected is simply a full metal jacketed round nose military load turned around and loaded backward so the flat base exits first. This is good for about a 25 yd shot before the bullet begins to yaw and lose accuracy but it has a noticeable impact when it hits. Try a few, you might like them.....
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:26 AM
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nw_hunter: btw, did you chronograph those PPU loads to ascertain the 1625'/sec velocity or is that what they are advertised at? Those velocities might be submachine gun velocities, like from the PPSH 41s and 43s.

With handloads I know that either 6 gns of Unique or 12.9 gns of H110 will get the 85 gn soft points to shoot to point of aim and chronograph right at 1390'/sec from my Tok. I duplicated the loads Mike Venturino used in testing his WWII military pistols. Hope this helps. Mikey.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-23-2017, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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nw_hunter: btw, did you chronograph those PPU loads to ascertain the 1625'/sec velocity or is that what they are advertised at? Those velocities might be submachine gun velocities, like from the PPSH 41s and 43s.

With handloads I know that either 6 gns of Unique or 12.9 gns of H110 will get the 85 gn soft points to shoot to point of aim and chronograph right at 1390'/sec from my Tok. I duplicated the loads Mike Venturino used in testing his WWII military pistols. Hope this helps. Mikey.
Thanks for the info Mickey. I didn't Chronograph either round I tried. The PPU's do show 1625 on the box, and I find that in most cases the fps is usually lower than advertised. The lead nose rounds I have are Hornady ( I think) bullets loaded by a local professional loader. Not sure what powder he uses or what the fps is on these loads.

After trying different mediums for penetration, I'm satisfied with the 45 cal.dia.expansion I get with the PPU hollow points.
The deeper penetration I get with the soft points,with less expansion, will make a good round for the Tok. when carrying in the woods as a side arm.

I may at sometime decide to load some for the Tok, and I'll keep your loading info for future reference. "Thanks"

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I am a Christian and a Conservative...........In that order!
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-09-2017, 02:30 PM
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Someone said these pistols are very flat shooting rounds out to 100yds?
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